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maxcy124sc90
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maxcy124sc90 said...
Joe, FYI, the rest of the world wants to bilk us for cleanup and charge us for carbon credits...also, our own environmentalists want to enforce laws, restrictions, charges, fees, mandates, etc........ on a million different levels. What in the heck are you talking about????THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AWARENESS WHATSOEVER. This is about ceding our national sovereignty over to a UN committee and our individual freedoms over to them as well(also to our own government). We are really discussing apples and oranges, unfortunately, and not debating the same issue. I really don't think you understand the consequences of this issue.
EarthyTechnoPop
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maxcy124sc90 said...
Joe, FYI, the rest of the world wants to bilk us for cleanup and charge us for carbon credits...also, our own environmentalists want to enforce laws, restrictions, charges, fees, mandates, etc........ on a million different levels. What in the heck are you talking about????THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AWARENESS WHATSOEVER. This is about ceding our national sovereignty over to a UN committee and our individual freedoms over to them as well(also to our own government). We are really discussing apples and oranges, unfortunately, and not debating the same issue. I really don't think you understand the consequences of this issue.
"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche
joetheogre
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joetheogre said...
I just don't see anyone losing rights over this. Environmental regulation on businesses is a good thing, but I don't see this leading to any massive changes to our lifestyle. There has been almost no movement in that direction.
This post was edited by maxcy124sc90 on 5/2/2012 at 5:20 PM
maxcy124sc90
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Aaron Burr Cock
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maxcy124sc90 said...
Apparently you and techno(no offense, really) are a part of a movement that you really don't understand. Sources include...Copenhagen Agreement, Kyoto Protocol, Sierra Club, Greenpeace, EPA, California Energy Commission(proposal to override your in home t-stat),...for starters You do realize the standard edison bulb has been banned, right? Along with a lot of other products...75br30 lamps...did you know that your toilet has to be a certain size as regulated by the government? For the love of Pete open your eyes...please!
A lot of this is just plain common sense...if you're interested in knowing...but like I said before...people believe what they want to believe....it's all right there in front of you.
This post was edited by EarthyTechnoPop on 5/2/2012 at 6:44 PM
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CockAtLaw
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VBCock
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BCSCock said...
Steve Goddard,a blogger @Real Science, who has degrees in geology and computer science(unlike Al Gore and his one freshman science course) studied weather history and found that our current weather is not nearly as weird and wild as in the past. This refutes the claim that global warming is currently causing dramatic hurricanes,droughts,heat waves,extreme cold and tornadoes. ..........
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by 81 Alumnus on 5/2/2012 at 9:03 PM
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CockOfAges
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81 Alumnus
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maxcy124sc90 said...
Apparently you and techno(no offense, really) are a part of a movement that you really don't understand. Sources include...Copenhagen Agreement, Kyoto Protocol, Sierra Club, Greenpeace, EPA, California Energy Commission(proposal to override your in home t-stat),...for starters You do realize the standard edison bulb has been banned, right? Along with a lot of other products...75br30 lamps...did you know that your toilet has to be a certain size as regulated by the government? For the love of Pete open your eyes...please!
A lot of this is just plain common sense...if you're interested in knowing...but like I said before...people believe what they want to believe....it's all right there in front of you.
"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche
joetheogre
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EarthyTechnoPop said...
And what movement am I a part of? You don't know me personally, and I have made no assertions whatsoever in this thread except that the science apparently points to human-influenced climate change. You claimed that this was not true. I presented a source, which you promptly laughed off as slanted. I asked for your source with no answer. You then pointed to other posts as laughable and, again, provided no evidence or even a source of your own.
I'm an open-minded dude about a lot of things ... this particular issue is one of those things. I'm perfectly willing to believe whatever evidence is out there. Quite frankly, I HOPE we don't have any influence on climate change at all. That would be great.
In your latest post, you lament the fact that laws are changing in favor of more energy efficient policies. You cite these as some sort of evidence of, what exactly? I'm not allowed to burn tires or bury batteries in my back yard, either, and people used to be able to do those things. These laws are in place because the science thus far has dictated that these practices are dangerous. Please, point me to a source that says otherwise about things related to climate change.
Earlier in the thread, you made 2 separate statements. One of them said to follow the money (generally good advice). In another, you said that our corporations stand to lose a lot of money through cleanup costs etc (I'm paraphrasing). The money leads me, then, to believe that those corporations would try to negate any research that proves climate change is influenced by us.
Again, please provide me with sources. Where are you getting your information? Until you can do so, you are the one who appears to have an agenda.
"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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81 Alumnus said...
So a guy who says he has degrees in two subjects totally unrelated to climate science, rocks and how computers work, and is one of the two or three people in America who blogs!!!!!! says one thing and the vast majority of climatologists in the world say the opposite. and you go with the guy who says he studied stalagmites and HTML codes and, gasp, blogs. OK.
You don't know me anymore than you know this Goddard guy, but I swear I have two degrees from USC, one in marketing and one in Ad/PR. If I open an account at www.freeblogtemplate.com and tell you to invest all your money in gold futures, even though every accredited financial professional in America will tell you that with gold prices at an all-time high and inflation at barely 2%, gold futures are a horrible place to put your money, will you listen to me instead of them if I can find a way to play into your predispositions and prejudices?
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maxcy124sc90
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maxcy124sc90 said...
Thanks for all of the info on light bulbs etc...but since I'm in the business, not any of you guys, I will stick to what I know for a fact. Comparing light bulbs to batteries...this is why we can't have a actual discussion. Techno, I've seen many of your political posts and everything you've ever posted has been liberal...so you are part of the liberal movement. Joe has pretty much admitted to being a socialist(his words) for all practical purposes...which is fine but don't be offended. You guys have a very different idea of freedom and government. To me, the government dictating what kind of light bulbs I can use, the size of toilet I can piss in, and what my thermostat should be set on is not what the government what created to do. You can laugh, yuck at up with all of the conspiracy nonsense you want...but these are facts and apparently non of you guys are familiar with the Copenhagen Agreement or the Kyoto Protocol...so you really haven't educated yourself enough to comment. But keep yucking it up...that's very productive.
Techno, you and I were referring to different Wikipedia links...my fault.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by EarthyTechnoPop on 5/3/2012 at 7:58 AM
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maxcy124sc90 said...
Thanks for all of the info on light bulbs etc...but since I'm in the business, not any of you guys, I will stick to what I know for a fact. Comparing light bulbs to batteries...this is why we can't have a actual discussion. Techno, I've seen many of your political posts and everything you've ever posted has been liberal...so you are part of the liberal movement. Joe has pretty much admitted to being a socialist(his words) for all practical purposes...which is fine but don't be offended. You guys have a very different idea of freedom and government. To me, the government dictating what kind of light bulbs I can use, the size of toilet I can piss in, and what my thermostat should be set on is not what the government what created to do. You can laugh, yuck at up with all of the conspiracy nonsense you want...but these are facts and apparently non of you guys are familiar with the Copenhagen Agreement or the Kyoto Protocol...so you really haven't educated yourself enough to comment. But keep yucking it up...that's very productive.
Techno, you and I were referring to different Wikipedia links...my fault.
81 Alumnus
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81 Alumnus said...
I'm curious, in 2007 when President Bush signed the Energy Independence and Security Act that set these limits on light bulbs' energy, were you this angry and worked up?
Or is it having a Democratic Kenyan Muslim president enforcing Bush's law that upsets you so much?
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CockAtLaw said...
Freedom is also the ability to be somewhat insulated from other people's bad choices. If I make a bad choice and decide to start a brush fire in my backyard, wouldn't you think my neighbors would like to be free from having to worry that my bad choices would burn their house down.
Freedom is a balancing act between the rights of all different kinds of people. No one's freedom is absolute. Just as no freedom contained in the bill of rights is absolute; there are always rights and interests to be balanced against each other. The Constitution tasks Congress with balancing those rights and interests. Every law in this country infringes on someone's absolute freedom. I am assuming you don't want a completely lawless government, but maybe you do.
Saying "it's not fear...it's happening" does not mean this isn't about fear, it is. Maybe it's fear about losing freedoms, or maybe it's fear with having to entrust a congress with creating laws which limit freedom, or maybe it's actually the exact opposite and it's the fear of a realization that sometimes, it has happened before, government can actually help people. Besides, if government can help and does something right, what would the next talking point be? I guess that hasn't been figured out yet, so we'll stick with fear for now.
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81 Alumnus said...
I'll ask you the same question I asked another poster.
Were you this upset when Bush signed the Energy Independence and Security Act, the law that regulated the bulbs, in 2007 or did it only become an outrage to you when it was left to his successor, Barack Obama's administration, to enforce Bush's law?
Perhaps you can supply some links to your criticizing Bush when he signed the law.
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EarthyTechnoPop said...
Everything I've posted referring to homosexual marriage has been liberal, and I've argued that I was the one seeking greater freedoms in that case. As for me being part of some liberal movement, you know very little about me. Lumping me in as part of a movement based on my ideas about 1 issue is riduculous.
I am asking you to convince me on this issue, and you've yet to do that at all. You've done nothing but act like you have all the answers and told me to do research, and you've yet to give even a hint of where you are getting your information. I'm trying to educate myself ... where should I be looking?
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