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Basketball recruiting...

  • MCR

    I'm having a tough time wrapping my mind around us having a head basketball coach who is able to get his foot in the door of big time recruits. Thornwell and Stoman are major recruits and if Martin is also able to land Dozier in the future, I'll have to totally rethink my position as an eternally pessimistic basketball fan. The thing is, I fear Dozier is going to fall into the same pattern that nearly every big recruit from Spring Valley takes which will lead him north to Chapel Hill. Dawn Staley's team would be sitting pretty (er) right now if X-Man's daughter hadn't jumped to North Carolina. I don't know if Asia Dozier belongs to Terry or Perry, but her decision to play for Dawn Staley has to bode well for us being able to get PJ, right?

    The thing that still seems to be eluding us is a major big man. I know they are rare, and it's hard to beat out the perennial top schools for these guys - Kentucky, Florida, Kansas, UNC, Duke, Syracuse, etc... If Martin can steal one of these guys, we can compete for the top of the SEC. It's been a while since anyone has suggested that.

  • Asia is PJ's sister. Perry is on good terms with USC, and is a supporter. You have to think that helps us. I have even heard that PJ refers to USC as 'us'.

    Frank will get us good players. He wins, is the most important thing. I equate it to school. The best teachers always get the best average grades from their students, even though they may not have the smartest ones. Martin is a good teacher.

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    Ally will beat the crap out of Uga.

  • Horn did most of the work in getting stroman and Thornwell. Martin just had to get them to reaffirm.

  • fog1

    Horne got most of the good players in SC...there just wasn't enough of them. Martin is going to benefit from a spike in talent in SC...last prior spike was when Coach Fogler came here.

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  • Thornwell stated in a recent interview that doubts about Horn's program and ability to win had entered his mind. My guess is that Horn would have lost him.

  • PJ reminds me so much of Durant.

    Must get

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    GrindFlu

  • Jelsik Sturm

    I feel better about the basketball program than I have felt in years. I have always been hopeful about the USC basketball team, even when there was little reason to be. But I think we have some coaches now who know what they are doing, in recruiting, in player development, in game strategy, and all the aspects of running a program. I am excited about the future. Even excited about the remainder of this season. It is fun to watch our coaches work with our current roster and try to get their best from them.

  • BobbyLee

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  • We wouldn't be missing major big men if Harris and Gill were around. Given the right time to develop, we can have an effective post game. The quality players we are going to be able to recruit, especially post players, shouldn't be counted on to contribute heavily in the first two years. They need a couple years to develop from a physical standpoint, a basketball standpoint, and they need time to adjust to the college life, like taking on classes, being on their own, studying, etc. I k ow he's not a post player, but Brian Richardson is a great example of this.

    Furthermore, horn had us in good position with many great recruits. WG made a post about it on a thread the other day. Horn wasn't able to coach a veteran group of players, so we'll never know what a lineup with a veteran Harris and Gill would have done. Also the fact that Ellington decided to play football really hurt our basketball team as stated by Mike Boynton.

  • while I think Horn was a good recruiter... he was a terrible coach. Experienced or inexperienced, if you don't have a sound offensive or defensive philosophy and gameplan, your teams will lose a lot of games against quality competition.

  • The year his big class were freshmen, I wasn't that upset by the struggles. But when there was so little improvement last year, it was really disconcerting -- especially the way the guards played.

    Still, he was a young coach who caught a host of bad breaks. I think he might have grown into it with better luck, but no question martin's staff came in and immediately impacted the way the team played on offensive end particularly.

    The coaching is better; hopefully the recruiting will be too as Martin settles in.

    Rarely can the USC coach succeed just by getting local talent. Martin is getting a period of it where that just might work. But I am looking to see is whether he can bring in some good players from out of state from his recruiting areas. If he can land a few he can really get it going.

  • fog1

    I agree! Darrin Horn was not a terrible coach but rather a young coach who had inexperienced assistants. Scott Cherry was his best assistant and when he left to be the head coach at High Point he did not adequately replace him. He did have a specific philosophy which was to play up tempo on offense and play pressure defense from several points on the court(full, 3/4 &half pressure). He also got somewhat unlucky in that he lost Dominque Archie to injury, could not keep Murphy Holloway here and lost Bruce Ellington to football. Therefore, he lost his athleticism and his leaders and could not play the uptempo style. We obviously are in a much better situation now mainly because Frank Martin does have an experienced staff that has been together for awhile. Having good assistants is the most important thing that a head coach does if he wants to have a good program.

  • Horn needed a dabo moment when he came to grips with needing competent, experienced help on his staff, IMO.

    And better luck. And a long look in the mirror. He needed to get better at his job.,.more luck might have given him the opportunity.

    Archie injury, inheriting Holmes as a key piece, 10 wins not enough to sneak in tournament, Stacey Poole deciding to sit the bench at Kentucky (everyone knew it at the time) rather than start. The instant turning of the fan base...

    He didn't help himself at all , but i believe worse coaches have muddled through with good fortune.

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  • Not Terrible coach, you are kidding me. He forced a veteran player out. Then gave a freshman the green light to shoot from anywhere. Now look that veteran is scoring 17+ at his new school and that freshman is a bench warmer under the new staff. Horn was, is, and forever will be an awful coach. Plus he is an asshole. Just saying.

  • his best team was crushed by injury and attrition when archie went down with a knee injury then a few weeks later holmes was kicked off the team, people forget that team was coming off an east division championship and returned everyone but zam frederick...if you dont lose those two players that team was one of the most experienced in the sec and a lock to make the ncaa tourney that year

  • Well I understand your assessment of Horn and the fact that you've done no research on the Galloway situation. Had you truly dig into that situation you would have read David Cloninger writing about the disruption in the locker room and the selfishness of Ramon Galloway. You would have heard what Mike Boynton said of that situation, which was the same thing. You wouldn't compare the level of talent Ramon Galloway plays now at Lasalle to what he would have played at USC. You would look at the horrible shot selection Ramon had game after game or the complete laziness on the defensive side of the floor. You would also realize that Horn offered him the chance to stay on the team, but Galloway CHOSE to transfer. Your blind hatred if Horn makes you the asshole, not him. Horn is not an awful coach. You don't make it to a division-1 school as a terrible coach. You also don't have DWade backing you if you are a terrible coach. By the way how's that terrible coaching affecting Lee up in Boston?

  • Merry Christmas to you as we'll spursy. I meet coach horn and he was less than cordial and was not real nice to this diehard fan. Having a difference of opinions about a coach is no reason to call someone you never meet an asshole, especially since I never said a derogatory remark about another poster.
    In regards to Ramon Galloway, since you mentioned him by name. All he has done is increase his scoring and assits every year he has played college basketball. In order- 7.8/1.2, 10.7/1.7, 14.1/3.5, 18/3.7. Lasalle beat Villanova this year and Galloway dropped in 26 and 4 assists to only 2 turnovers. That wine is better than any an we have this year. Lasalle also crushed penn st. So by my count they have 2 wins over bcs conf teams and we have none. By the way Galloway had14 and 4 in that game.
    It is a well known fact that horn told Galloway he would not be part of his plans moving forward. After that would you expect him to come back? Yes Galloway had issues, but I will say that losing and playing time play a role in those issues. Yes Galloway had tremendously poor shot selection yet he shot over 50 points better than the player that replaced him and horn gave freedom to shoot from anywhere.
    Finally if horn was considered a good coach thatwasjust a victim of bad luck than he would have gotten an offer to coach asan assistant somewhere, yet he has not.
    Michael boyton can't talk publically about horn and his coaching ability as he is trying to get a job. But if you do get a chance to ask him about privately it is quite interesting. Horn didn't let the assistants do anything other than recruit. He micromanaged everything.

  • I agree totally with your assessment of Galloway. Very talented, questionable shot selection, just needed a good coach to make him a very good player. He didn't have that coach in Columbia, but he does at LaSalle. The poster who attempted to attribute Galloway's numbers the last two years to inferior competition is way off.

    Also, the freshman who was ticketed to replace Galloway is not only far less talented than Galloway, but he also had very poor shot selection. He took way too many threes last year coming off screens, catching the pass and jumping without squaring up to the basket, then launching a poor percentage shot that any good coach (such as Frank Martin) would not have allowed.

    I personally talked to a D-1 head coach (whose team was on our schedule), and it was clear how poorly coached he thought Carolina was under Horn.

  • If Horn had a real downfall it would be his demeanor towards fans an the media for that matter an that's the reason he's not here anymore. I have heard others say he was a jerk and I personally have no ill will towards the man, but to say he can't coach is a joke. As for your assessment of Galloway, the stats don't always tell the whole story. The bottom line is he was horrible while he was here and a complete liability on the floor. Maybe he isn't at Lasalle, but that's neither here nor there as I can only account for his horrible, selfish play at USC and the fact that he was apparently a distraction in the locker room. I wouldn't have thought that he'd be missed between Richardson, Ellington, Williams, and Leonard. Unfortunately Ellington abandoned the basketball team and a staff that counted on him devoting his college career to basketball which has hurt him and the team. Leonard hasn't panned out yet. Richardson and Williams are actually bright spots on our team.

    Also to address Lasalles success compared to our own, did they lose arguably there two best players from last years team, leaving them with nothing in the post. See you don't take any of that into account which is ridiculous, but I'm glad you are keeping up with Galloway. Sounds like he's doing great getting to be the superstar on Lasalle

  • Galloway was more talented than Richardson and smith, so I imagine he could have been coached to be better. But no question that he was not accountable while he was here.

    I'm still not sure why telling someone who was horrendous and undisiplined while he was on floor that he would not be guaranteed to start is running him off, but that is the narrative and it is what it is forever more. Some players might have taken it as challenge to improve...regardless, maybe he found what he needed and was best for everyone.

    Sort of a Kenny irons situation all in all, and Kenny was a different player for his transfer.

  • MCR

    It's amazing to me that any of you who watched any of the Horn-coached teams at USC can sit here and say he was a good coach. His teams appeared to lack any type of identity on either end of the floor. I always hear the injury excuses about his best team and that can't be denied, but its pathetic that he was never able to recover, even to a decent level.

    He wasn't a terrible recruiter, but he was never going to get us in the picture with national recruits. We'll never know but I suspect after another horrendous year, he would've lost any chance for Stroman and Thornwell.

    I never met him but I'm yet to hear from anyone I know with close ties to the athletic dept that he was well liked. I hear just the opposite.

    We are very fortunate that he is gone and he will likely be remembered in much the same way Newton is - as a bad decision.

  • Not sure why you feel the need to give Horn credit here.
    Horn proved he could court but could not close, as pointed out in a recent article on here.
    Martin is a proven recruiter and has already shown that ability here in a short time in a program
    that is a very tough sell right now.

    Precedent says Horn would not of closed either of these guys.

    Giving Horn credit is a cop out. Martin would likely have gotten it done without Horn's work, again looking at historical precedence, unless timing of being a new coach and getting new staff/recruiting in place would have made it too difficult.

    Horn was a bad coach, plain and simple, and he proved it over and over.
    Saying he just got too many bad breaks and needed a little luck over a period of 4+ years that took the program to depths it
    has rarely seen in many, many decades is laughable and simply not credible.
    Hyman realized the hire was a mistake and made the right move, although he was reluctant for some time since it was his own hire.
    Thank goodness his thought process eventually moved beyond things like bad luck and bad breaks.

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