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I disagree about Murphy. Sometimes it's not about career numbers but about whether a player was the best in the game at any point.
Take Sandy Koufax for instance. From 1955 to 1961, Koufax was 54-53 with just under a 4.00 ERA. Then from 1962 to 1966 when he retired, Koufax was superhuman. He went 111-34 with a 1.98 ERA. He won 3 Cy Youngs and 1 MVP during that stretch.
He was a no-brainer Hall of Fame lock.
Dale Murphy was good at the beginning of his career. He hit over 20 HR his first 2 full seasons but he wasn't an All Star yet. Then during a period from 1980 to 1987, he was awesome. During those years, he hit .282 and averaged 33 HR and 96 RBI a season. He led the league in HR twice, RBI twice, had over 100 RBI five times, made the All Star Game 7 of 8 seasons while winning the NL MVP Award twice. Meanwhile, he played all 162 games in 4 straight seasons from 1982 to 1985 on bad teams and altogether he played in 154 or more games in 9 seasons. In 1983 he was a 30-30 guy before anybody made a big deal about being a 30-30 guy.
I'm not saying he should've been a first ballot HOFer, but his numbers, especially during the middle of his career, were as good as anybody's. Jim Rice was a great ball player who had to wait many years to get in near the very end of his eligibility. Let's compare and discuss how the numbers don't always tell the entire story.
Rice hit only 382 home runs to Murph's 398 and Rice's claim to fame was the long ball. His numbers in other categories were better than Murph's except Murph won 2 MVPs and Rice only won 1. Murph's detractors like to mention that he led the league in double plays a couple of times, although Rice actually led the AL 4 straight years in that category and for his career hit into 315 DPs, whereas Murph only hit into 209.
I'm not knocking Rice. He was one of my favorites growing up since the Sox were my favorite AL team and I knew Rice was a South Carolina native. However, his career and Murphy's were similar and he got in while Murph didn't. There was a time when Murph was almost undoubtedly the best player in the NL and I don't know that was ever the case with Jim Rice. It's a shame than Murph got snubbed, and I can only hope the veteran's committee will rectify this omission in the future.
This post was edited by MCR 15 months ago
If they keep people out because of steroids, then every player in before integration should be removed. JMO
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like $*!#
Damn straight. And the 60s-80s are out because of amphetamines. I guess that leaves the late 40s and 50s. Time to restructure the HOF.
This is really a problem that MLB has created itself. In the late 90's, when it became pretty clear that players were using steroids and other performance enhancing substances, they chose to ignore it. There were cultural, physical and performance indications that this was happening, but since big numbers meant big fans meant big money, they did nothing. It's not as if the league put restrictions and testing in and the players moved to the next non-tested drug or used masking agents; the league did NOTHING to stop it. And this went on for years....
So technically, the players did nothing illegal. Did it distort numbers? sure. Are fans upset and did it hurt the integrity of the game? Of course. But now players are being punished for doing something that the league chose to turn a blind eye at. And since sportswriters have a hard time on voting on a player on his merits, achievements or comparison to other players vs. the raw numbers they put up, they cannot determine if the players put up those numbers because of the steroids or because of the talent.
the sad thing is that ALL of the players of that era now get swept under that eye of suspicion, whether they ever injected themselves or not. So now the voters a doling out the punishment for something baseball never really deemed a crime (or did not at the time).
Not a bad comp for Murphy but I'm a Sox fan and would tell you Rice doesn't belong. Heck I think Dwight Evans is more deserving. I don't think comparing Murphs 8 year run to Koufax is fair either. He led the NL in Era for five straight years. Murphy has never gotten more than 23.2 % of the votes in a given year for a reason. Good player but not hall worthy.
Next year I think you have three slam dunks in Maddax, Glavin and Frank Thomas. I think Biggio should go in also.
"People always ask me if I wish I were bigger. I tell them no. I always wanted to be a miniature badass." Dustin Pedroia
Exactly right. The HOF is full of "cheaters". How many guys made it thru long stretches of their careers with aid of "greenies" to keep them going. Baseball has since banned the use of those things. Why? Because players were using a chemical substance to gain a competitive advantage on the field. Wow, sounds a lot like steroids doesn't it? Wonder how many of those things Ripken popped to help him play 12000 straight games? IF we learn that Cal was using those, will the holier than thou baseball writers demand that his bust be removed from Cooperstown?
Are they going to demand that Gaylord Perry be removed? I mean, that guy was the biggest cheat in the history of baseball. Only his cheating was whimsical and funny so we laugh at it instead of listening to grandstanding, douche bag writers bloviate about the integrity of the game.
Everybody stood by and pretended the juicing wasn't going on. Fine, but don't grow a conscience now and keep well deserving players out of the HOF when the hall is filled with cheats, reprobates and jerks, along with some wonderful human beings and genuinely good people.
The steroid era happened whether we like it or not and we can't pretend it didn't. Barry Bonds is the all time HR leader. Sorry, but he is.
Hank Aaron is.
Weird because when I check the record books it says Barry Bonds is the all time HR's leader.
Yeah it is weird. Must be a typo because I'm confused, wouldn't the all time homerin king be in Cooperstown on the first ballet. Seems strange...
You would think! Sort of my point. I think the writers first tried to pretend that steroids weren't rampant. Now they're trying to pretend an entire era didn't happen. Sorry, but it did and the fact that a guy named Bonds is the all time homerun king proves it. That they didn't vote him into the HOF is a joke.
I would love to see Maddux become the first unanimous selection. Murphy was a nice player, but not HOF.
Tell me you aren't this naive.
His testimony about his personal use of banned substances was so intentionally evasive he took a felony obstruction of justice conviction as a result. His drug dealer spent almost 2 years in prison rather than testify against bonds. Recorded conversations between the dealer and bonds' agent specifically reference supplying him with steroids and masking agents.
I really don't care much if he was able to avoid detection by the intentionally worst drug testing system ever concocted. Guy was a cheating bastard and doesn't deserve a single accolade, much less the Hall.
Cheated at what? Hell it wasn't even against the rules of baseball until the tail end of his career. Baseball, the media and its fans willfully turned a blind eye to what was blatantly obvious until the biggest dick on the block availed himself of the same juice that others were using for a solid decade before he got involved and only after he started using did this crisis of conscious arise.
The entire mock outrage wreaks of fraud.
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