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this will be the year he proves his worth as a WR coach. Lot of coaching up to do with the talent/ experience at WR. Team will need this group to be adequate to succeed.
Yeah producing three of the best wr in our history clearly doesn't prove anything, but at fourth will change the minds of all his critics, wait no it won't haters always going to hate.
Anyone still questioning his ability to coach WR's hasn't been paying attention or has an agenda.
What do you think of JR compared to Dabo and Jeff Scott? Serious question.
Our WR struggled getting open last year. Mightily. Even AJ. AJ was overweight and lackadaisical at times. His production was a shell of his former self. He wasn't pushed to be a great player by Jr.
Rice and AJ would have been all Americans at ECU. Just my opinion. As I stated in my original post..... let's see what he does with this crew. I have my doubts. Mostly because of actual on the field play. Great blockers who can't shake a Citadel DB. Going to be difficult with a 5'7 goto WR. Need someone to step up. Hope Jr proves me wrong.
While your continued objections to JR are annoying, the comment about WRs not getting open last year is accurate for the most part. To me, they looked very frustrated until the latter half of the season. Early on they were open, but Garcia couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Once Shaw took over it was clear that SOS was being careful and relying on the running game. Toward the end of the season the WRs seemed to gain confidence in Shaw and were open quite a bit.
Either way, what does it matter? You gonna run JR out of town if they drop 50 balls and are never open? I promise you that if the criticism of Bubba gets too loud Steve, Jerri, and the family won't stay in Columbia.
This post was edited by Jefe5235 2 years ago
Given the talent we've thought we have there in comparison with the production of the units, I'd have to say this is not a stretch. The inability of these guys to get open has been noticed by many frustrated board members. It is not an illusion.
That inability to get open was mitigated last year by Shaw's legs. Many of his biggest gains came on scrambles where no one was open and defenders had their backs to him. Maybe his production & reputation will gbe able to have an impact on the WR corps this year, though. With bigger threats on the ground and RB & TE passing targets opening up, I hope to see situations more amenable to better WR play. I also hope to see the receivers take advantage of this. But I certainly think there is a lot of improvement to be made to live up to what we've hoped for out of this group of guys.
Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.
There are no evil thoughts except one: The refusal to think.
I think they are better recruiters, but our wr as a whole have been better over the last seven years. Our issues have been OL and QB, not wr.
See this is how ignorant people are. You need to go to practices. Alshon's route running, first step, hand positioning, etc.. Wasn't great. Jr work before and after every practice Alshon's freshman on these things to get him ready to play. This was my observations from the practices I attended and was also what coaches and others told me once the practices where closed. Yes Alshon would have been great anywhere so long as the coaches spent the time with him Jr did, and was able to reach him the way Jr did.
Admit it you don't like Jr because he the son of our head coach and nothing more. Go ask other coaches who've worked with Jr, he might not be a great recruiter, and be a bit arrogant, but he CAN coach.
Now stop hating, and enjoy the product he puts on the field.
Our issues last year were majority QB. Garcia was God awful and Shaw wouldn't throw into windows more experienced QB's would.
Sometimes they struggled to get open for what Shaw deemed open, but watch the tape, they were open. On Garcia, they could have been standing on the field by themselves and Garcia would have only completed 50%.
This is the same tired argument over and over. The really good ones that he's coached that went on to rewrite the record books don't count. I think I will play that game too.
Brad Lawing isn't a very good DL coach. Take away Ladi, Travian, Norwood, Clowney, Taylor, Kelcey and Melvin. Those guys don't count. They're studs anywhere they go. Aldrick Fordham is decent at best. Surratt hasn't seen the field yet. Sutton hasn't lived up to the hype yet and Phillip Dukes couldn't even get on the field last year and he was a 4 star. Lawing has a lot to prove this year.
Sorry you are using result, catches, not your eyes. IMO you haven't a clue how to evaluate if a wr is getting open. There were two games last year I think our WR struggled to get open, but after that they were open by college terms. Open in Hs means you have multiple steps on a db, and a lot of the time you are stationary our running a vertical route. In college open is a much smaller window, maybe just one step, and a lot of the Time it's on crossing routes where the QB accuracy hasto be there, much tougher to hit than vertical routes and stationary targets that Shaw is excellent at hitting. In the pro's it's not even a step , the window is the spot you hit the wr in, back shoulder vs front shoulder etc..
Give this topic a rest our Wr production will pick up when shaw's confidence picks up. Alshon seemed to be ok against Nebraska and Clemson, when Shaw really showed improvement, and Ellington was beautiful on that play against the tigers.
This post was edited by rmctacdmc 2 years ago
Ah the good ol' lull between baseball and football. Gotta love it
TM disagrees. FWIW. See ask Tony thread.
And if you think AJ was a good route runner and good at creating separation you are insane. AJ was good b/c of his ball skills and size. If Jr had a hand in either, kudos I suppose.
Bottom line is if our WR aren't able to get open, we will struggle. They couldn't, for the most part, get open last year. Ace was probably the best. Which is nice. I suppose.
This post was edited by Soul Biscuit 2 years ago
What are you basing this on?
Junior's a good coach. I think he falls short as an evaluator of talent and as a recruiter but he's proven to be a quality coach. Consequently, if our WRs struggle this year it'll be due to a lack of talent, not coaching.
Spurrier...I appreciate him plenty
IMO in reading TM over the years his responses are short by design. This leaves him room to maneuver, if he really believes the issues were 100% wr based and pervasive then, I'd simply say Tony is wrong. I agree in a couple meaning two they struggled, but it wasn't a wr problem in most games it was QB. Go watch games and focus on the wr there was a number of guys running open, but you have to find them, and then be willing and able to make the throw. Nebraska and cu were games where Shaw showed he could do that and our wr production increased. Did you not see that?
Brad Lawing is an incredible coach. The individual development from year to year has been outstanding.
Watching their results on the field and in recruiting, plus talking to hs coaches who attend their clinics, combined with observations of Jr coaching, talking to him, and others who work with him, hs coaches that interact with him, plus three of the best five wr in school history that he has produced.
How many WRs does he have to put in the NFL and how many record holders does he he have to have coached at multiple schools to prove his worth?
They WRs underachieved last year, but he has had solid groups everywhere he's been.
Btw, if last year's lack of production from Alshon was JRs fault, who gets the credit for his success the previous two?
Interesting you picked THIS year to be the one by which he is judged.
Mostly agree, but honestly Shaw continuing to play likevhe did against cu and Nebraska and building off that will be the biggest single element. I agree he seems to have evaluation issues, but is that the kids talent, work ethic or willingness to learn? I don't know, what I do know s the talk of playing favorites is sour grapes from some and one other guy not separating his friendship from his friends laziness.
No it's not interesting, Fl and Bcm have been negative on Jr for years and could make a thread on watermelon into a bash Jr thread.
We just see things different. Which is fine. Good discussion.
I'd use Clemson and Nebraska as points for my argument. All day to throw, no one open for the most part. Our protection was outstanding in those games.
I'll stick to my opinion. And I think we will find out who's right in a few months. I hope you are. But I don't think we've had a WR who was consistently able to run good routes and get open since KM. Incidentally who Jr said was the best natural route runner he's ever coached. ;)
You know why he had all day? Go see how many they were dropping into coverage. Even there he had guys open and on at least five occasions didn't pull the trigger. Other times we was a split second slow deciding. shaw will be very good, but he needs to do what SOS has been telling him. Drop back, trust your wr's and let it go.
I think he's a decent coach who's bad qualities outweigh his good ones.
The reason I asked about Clemson's coaches is because that's a good way to get people's attention. It also shows how people use the same situations to make opposite points.
If you think JR is a god then you must think that Jeff Scott and Dabo are Zeus because both teams have had a handful of good players, yet they recruit circles around him and have a much better group.
This post was edited by BCMCock05 2 years ago
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