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In the ask tony thread today, tony says that our coaching salaries are about middle of the pack in the sec. According to tony, that is by design, because spurrier doesn't like his assistants getting complacent. Spurrier sets the standard for this by accepting a small amount himself.
My question to the board is is this a good business philosophy long term? Since I started a thread about it, I obviously disagree, but I'm sure a lot of you do and I'm open to hearing why its a good idea and hearing about some examples where it's worked.
Frankly, I can't think of a program that has done more with less over the last few years than this staff at USC, and I feel like ward, mangus, Elliot, and even spurrier jr deserve to be paid handsomely for it.
For the record, I'll eat some crow about lawing leaving. I was certain it was about money and program prestige, and it sounds like it has more to do with a very rare, unique incident.
Complacency certainly hasn't been a problem on the staff. Reference those who've left for better contracts. That philosophy would also seem to significantly restrict the pool of candidates.
This post was edited by MrBigAl 18 months ago
Spurrier...I appreciate him plenty
I feel they should be paid market value, like anything else. No need in setting the market value like clemsux paying over a mil for an OC. Elliot, Ward, and Mangus need to be paid the market value for the top assistants in the country, as they are key cogs to our recent success on the field and in the recruiting rankings. With all of the money coming in from TV contracts, we can't afford to let them go over $$. Just my two cents.
I wasn't saying complacency was an issue. Just that that is spurriers rationale about his salaries.
Yea I don't think we should be rediculous about it.
But we spend middle of the pack for coaches.
Despite working for a program with a lot less prestige and tradition and recruiting in a state that has less talent compared to fla, ga, Louisiana, and even alabama, we have been getting top quarter of the conference results. I feel like they should be paid accordingly.
This post was edited by Roisin Dubh 18 months ago
I feel LONG TERM that this is NOT beneficial to our program.....One poster on here said the other day that this could lead to us being a training ground until coaches find something better...I feel that to be the best you should pay near the top...JMHO
I understand. I wasn't disagreeing with you.
I'm fine with it for a few reasons.
1. We are competitive in the grand scheme of things.
2. Long term big money hires can ruin an Athletic Department. Tenn had to invest $18 million in its Athletic department bc of buyouts. They are currently paying two ADs, 3 HCs and Dooleys staff got $4.1 million in buyouts on top of Doolys $5 mill.
3. Big money doesn't equal success. A lot of times the big money guys have paid their dues and get paid on past success. They get lazy on the trail bc they know they have 25 years or so in contacts built up and won't have any problems finding a job. As much as most don't want to hear it a lot of times the young guys youve never heard of coming from say App St or wherever know this is their one shot and they work hard. Ward didn't break the bank this year bc he didn't have any experience as DC. After a great year teams came after him and he will get rewarded. It will probably happen just about every offseason.
4 You can get good coaches from lower levels at better costs. Oregon was smart enough to nab Kelly from New Hampshire, we know where Mangus and Elliot came from, Deke Adams whom most seem to want was coaching at Elon a few years back. Sure it's good to have Sec experience but there are tons of guys out there who would die to coach DL here for $150K and a chance to make a name. You just have to make a smart choice.
Overall if we are paying middle of the road in the Sec that's pretty good. We aren't going to compete pay scale wise with the programs that bring in over $100 million per year. It's just not happening.
"People always ask me if I wish I were bigger. I tell them no. I always wanted to be a miniature badass." Dustin Pedroia
Lots of good points there. Maybe it's a sounder philosophy on hiring than I originally thought, however I still think paying the guys who have proved their worth at the same level our more prestigious rivals do is the way to go. That way they'll be less inclined to leave for lateral moves even if they have a 'connection' and regardless of whether they make lateral moves or they're getting promotions we won't be paying their buy outs.
Guys like mangus, ward, and Elliot are trying to become head coaches. Paying them more wont deter them from doing a good job, it will just make it harder to hire them away.
Should be paid commensurate with their value to the program taking into account market value for their positions [i.e. what level they're at--assistant, coordinator, assistant head coach, etc] at an historical Top 10 National program [not because that's our history, but because that's where we want to be.] IMO IYAM
Mangus, Ward and Elliott in particular should be paid in line with assistants that make similar contributions and function in similar roles at SoCal, Texas, Mich., UF, if that's what it takes to keep them and SOS believes their contributions warrant it.
Very well respected business strategists/advisors have advocated finding the right people for your key positions...ones who bring essential value to the organization, and are [God forgive me for using this term] "all in" in terms of subscribing to and implementing the organizational philosophy/mission...and paying what's necessary to keep them.
Just a theory
FYI, Spurrier doesn't "accept a small amount himself." According to this article at $3.5 million he was the 7th highest paid CFB coach last year.
Yes.[I guess i was typing while this was being posted]
I agree with paying the key guys enough to deter them from leaving. I mean there had to be a reason Mickey Andrews stuck with Bowden as long as he did.
I own my own business (janitorial) and my key management guys make good money. However, their decisions to come, go or stay are not based on money...but rather on the environment that we have worked hard to create together, and all enjoy.
Spurrier is said to be a player's coach. He is most definitely also a coach's coach. He values family greatly, which is why two of his sons are with the program and his wife is very involved. The family atmosphere he has created is important to his success, IMO.
Additionally, there is more that motivates and rewards people than JUST money (though of course it's important). Once your living expenses (needs AND wants) are covered, that's when quality of life comes in.
Our assistants being middle of the pack means their needs (and most wants) are covered...and the quality of life + career defining opportunity to work for Steve Spurrier more than make up for it.
This post was edited by michaelisamole 18 months ago
True, but he also doesn't receive what he could command, here or at another SEC school. He could be #3, pretty easily.
That's debatable, but he's in some pretty lofty company as far as salary goes.
This is a point that I have made before.....Would Carolina pay SOS what he could command....That is the question I have going forward when we hire a new coach....Would Carolina pay SOS right now 4.5 to 5 million per year if he demanded that type money?
This post was edited by 86cocky 18 months ago
My question has always been where does the money stop? How much is fair market value when you start putting 6 zeros behind a digit? Will head coaches in cfb be making 10 million a year in 10 years? I don't know, it just seems a bit odd that the man who dictates the gameplan for a game gets paid 10x more than the man that dictates the gameplan for our nation (not an BO fan BTW). America is a lot like ancient Rome I guess and I doubt any AD ever crams that genie back in the bottle.
Question of the century but when these new TV deals are in place and Carolina is bringing in 35-40 million per year then the expectations will go through the roof. Play the game or get lost in the shuffle.....
You pay what you have to pay. You don't just throw out over priced salaries or raises to say you pay the most. Look how that has worked out for Tennessee. Why pay JR more, he's very well payed for WR coach and recruiting co.. He's not going anywhere. Elliot got the raises when he earned it. Whammy is very well payed and is about to get a raise. GA will get a raise now that he's off the salary freeze punishment.
I think tony was Refering spurriers starting salary.
I do not think we should do anything as a matter of practice. Each case should be dealt with seperately with an overall sense of fairness. I do not think we should match every offer that comes down th pike..just because. We have seen that some schools can over pay..and you do not want to be in the business of matching every offer..or to even have that reputation. I believe in consistant raises to reward loyalty. I believe in fighting to keep those we found to be invaluable..but think sometimes you can think someone is invaluable while only looking at the short term picture.
Elliott could probably find someone willing to pay him more....but he knows if he stays here good things are coming to him. Ward the same deal....as well as Mangus.
I think managing his staff is one of the Spurrier's strengths. I have not always agreed with everything he has done in this regard..but he has proven to me that he is very good at this part of his job.
I agree with everything in this post.
I also know that whatever Spurrier has been doing works, so, as frustrating as it is to some people, I trust Spurrier on this simply because he's a lot better coach than I am. I would like to see Ward, Elliot, and Mangus get some good money this year, and I'm sure they will get taken care of. I think klimpsin paying their assistants that much is ridiculous, and I would be embarrassed if we needed assistants THAT bad in order to prop up the HC.
Just from my observations, Spurrier has his philosophies on defense, and he emphasizes those in recruiting, and in coaching. I don't think it is a coincidence that almost every year he's been in the SEC that Spurrier's defenses have been a feared group. He obviously is one of the brightest offensive minds ever also. The truth is that we don't need to prop him up with overpaid assistants. I think that Elliot and Mangus mesh with him about as good as I've seen, but we are not dependent on assistants as long as we have The HBC.
Ally will beat the crap out of Uga.
I also worry about the outrageous salaries being thrown around. In professional sports, it's difficult for many families to attend games because you simply can't get in and out for under $100 and in many cases, you might spend $300-$500 to see a damn ball game. It's getting bad in college sports as well, with seat licenses, fees, crazy ticket prices, etc. I understand that it's a privilege rather than a right to attend games, but it shouldn't be only an elite few who can do so. Regardless of the ridiculous media money schools receive, the salaries still end up being paid by the fans.
All that being said, we need to do our best to keep up with the Joneses. I just don't think we need to be at the very top of the pack because we can't sustain it. Our small state just doesn't have the resources that Georgia, Florida, and some others have.
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