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This is a "discussion" board...it is here so people can post opinions and share insights they might have because of their different points of view. The questions you raised are valid but please refrain from attacking an poster with "how is this good info?' and "you've been listening to your family's pipe dreams too much" when he is doing nothing more than creating an interesting thread on a slow Sunday. FWIW he was posting information that was pertaining to quite a few posters on here who want Horn gone and Marshall in; whether I agree or not it is a common sentiment right now.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/JustinKing224 // E-mail: email@example.com
Since it is a burr under my saddle, I'm just going to go ahead and say it-ALL things being comparable, I would much rather see USC hire an African-American as the Head Coach of one of our major programs, without regard to whomever is the other candidate.
From purely a perception standpoint (and I'm happy to cite substantive reasons, if need be), such a hiring would continue to dispel certain notions held by those external to the State's borders (and a number within) about the State, the University and the athletics program. In addition, such a hiring would serve as visible affirmation that there has truly been a "CULTURE CHANGE", within the athletics program, at USC.
Clemson, Ala, Georgia, TN, KY, AK, GT, Vandy, Ms. St., Ole Miss, Aub, Mz, T A&M, LSU, MD, UVA, Miami, and FSU, to name a few, have had AF-A coaches of one or more of their major programs.
If my post is construed as hijacking a thread, my apologies in advance. I'm glad to repost, in a thread all its own.
USC made competitive approaches to other coaches before settling on horn. I wouldn't assume that our paying horn his market rate means that they won't pay a better candidate his market rate or above.
The ultimate issue will be who wants the job and how much of a premium they demand.
It probably doesn't make any sense for USC to pay someone with horn's resume a big salary until they make progress her and show they can draw crowds. Horn got a bump and would have kept getting bumps if he hadnt fizzled.
Hell his deal gave him a cut of ticket sales.
All those nuts who acted like Winthrop was playing on nine foot rims got their wish. Marshall went somewhere else and did exactly what he did at Winthrop. It's almost like he's coaching the same sport or something. Now let's see if he's gotten too expensive for us.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
To say you hijacked the thread is an understatement. Also I doubt anyone here cares what race our coach is. We just want the best one available.
"People always ask me if I wish I were bigger. I tell them no. I always wanted to be a miniature badass." Dustin Pedroia
This certainly is a thread jack. Please delete and repost.
definitely something that could be an interesting discussion in another thread, but I've been waiting for the opportunity to use this and can't resist here:
You don't need to defend your post. It was very insightful. This board has more than it's share of tools. Just ignore of them and thanks again for your insights on things in Wichita,
I just think sometimes these billionaire program Sugar Daddys get overstated. Phil Knight sort of let it be known he had an open checkbook last basketball hire and they got a MVC coach in their own right in Dana Altman.
Travis Ford at Oklahoma State was a good hire but not an Earth-shattering one.
Koch and the Wichita situation are no different.
Not interested in kowtowing to the NAACP. Take it elsewhere.
I never said I "hijacked" the thread. I said, "If my post was CONSTRUED as..." That's a subjective standard that clearly in your mind, my post met. That's precisely why I acknowledged the possibility, in the first place.
Having grown up in the south and SC in particular (and wouldn't live anywhere else), excuse me if I don't share your utopian sentiment on the relevance of race in the hiring practices of major HWC&U. I can also tell you that having been a principal in the contract negotiations for coaches of several of the schools I listed (and many I didn't), I speak from experience, not speculation.
Lastly, my comments were directed more towards how I feel the University can continue to seize upon and benefit from the unprecedented goodwill and enthusiasm that is swirling around the athletics program. If you read it as anything other than a recitation of facts and a desire to see the university continue to progress, that speaks more to your perspective that it does to my intent.
Appreciate it, Justin, but to be honest with you, I don't know what that term means. I can only presume it means my comments aren't germane to the main thread.
My mistake. I'm glad to return to reading and not posting.
Thanks for a very informative post. I think a lot of Carolina fans overestimate the attractiveness of the basketball job here, and overestimate the willingness of someone like Marshall to leave a place where he's successful and appreciated.
BTW, the year that we played Wichita State in football was 1980; we won 73-0. WSU's coach was Willie Jeffries, the longtime former S.C. State coach. Jim Carlen didn't want to run up the score, and so was calling reserves who hadn't even dressed out for the game, out of the stands go suit up and play.
I think that race is certainly something that can be considered a positive in respect to a qualified coach, but I think it is somewhat off base to portray USC as a school with difficult there.
We have tried to hire Tubby Smith, we have tried to hire JT3, we have tried to hire Jeff Capel, to an extent we tried to hire Anthony Grant (who expressed non-interest).
If we do not hire a minority coach, it will not be for lack of consideration. Whatever the perception might be out there.
This is precisely why anyone ---even somebody getting paid a fortune by Koch U--would be overjoyed to (eventually) get the hell out of Wichita Ks. I'm one of the folks who doesn't think Marshall is worth going after, let alone getting into any kind of bidding deal over. I know many folks around here think he's another Phog Allen or something, but he LOOKS like some doofus from Wichita, Dodge or Garden City to begin with, and Hyman apparently has not been marking him on the meter, either. " Impressive coaching, to say the least" ??? give me a break.....
Well name some of your candidates you would want. I dont care if we go to Croatia and hire a coach I just want to win and would be upset if we hired a less qualified coach to try to change the perception of our state when it should come down to winning games.
Saying Hyman is cheap makes no sense considering he has pumped more money into our athletic program than at any time in our history and hired our women's bball coach at a hefty salary. If he goes after Marshall, he will set a ceiling that he feels we can pay, and if the donors at Wichita top that, then more power to Marshall. By the way, it is clear that hiring an up and comer is the only probable solution for our program. Every big name we've gone after since McGuire has turned us down rather quickly.
Well, I'm glad you addressed that portion of my comments.
I think Oregon's open checkbook was for Mark Few ... who is happy at his high paying mid major job ... and other big names.
In the end, not many coaches with good jobs are going to leave them for money.
The question is how good does Marshall think his job at Wichita is. I suspect he doesn't see it as a place to retire, but I also suspect that he will need a lot from USC to legitimately risk his career to come here. and he may now have higher aspirations.
I've never really thought much of the "dream job" talk. Seemed like a lot of marketing to me. I don't think he is going to take a home town discount to return. In fact, I think he will probably demand the home town premium.
This will be interesting to watch play out, assuming that we have a coaching vacancy, which I think is probably going to be the case.
Let me first say, I really do regard this exchange the same as if we were sitting across the table from one another. A discussion and nothing more.
The first statement in my comments included the qualifier, "...comparable.." I no more want to settle on a less qualified candidate for ANY REASON, than any other graduate, fan, supporter of USC. I simply said, if the candidates are comparable, WHY NOT???
I'm not advocating any particular coach. We (the University) clearly have a perception issue (admittedly, some may disagree or not care). All things being comparable, seems to be a logical path to take to remedy that issue. Low hanging fruit, in my opinion.
how does the University have a perception problem? Clearly?
I don't understand that one.
I do hesitatate to hire another coach that abuses hair gel
I absolutely agree with you that the effort has improved, under our current Athletic Admin.
I can also tell you that under the previous regime, I KNOW that TS would have come here vs UGA, had he only been ASKED!! Hard to argue with getting Nat'l Coach of the Year and some interim success w transfers, by Fogler, but long term, we'll never know. Nevertheless, that call never came. The ship had sailed, on any subsequent efforts.
Only know 3rd person info on the others you cited, but again I'll say, I am encouraged by the current Athletic Admin. I mean this from the standpoint of truly pursuing the BEST candidates for the opportunity and not simply paying lip service to the notion.
Well, I can start with the perception that players are good enough to play there, but not good enough to be on the coaching staff (vs other schools that find a way to appear to embrace their former players). Agree or disagree/explain away, I'm telling you that perception is out there and percolating just beneath the surface.
How many of our competitors can realistically demonstrate to a kid that not only can they be a successful student/athlete at their school but could have the opportunity to come back and be the HEAD COACH? MANY!!! Can USC DEMONSTRATE that opportunity to the prospective student athlete? No.
The best salesperson for any business peddling a product or a service, is a satisfied customer. I think we are finally starting to turn the corner and I just want us to continue the paradigm shift that I feel is developing.
I live in Greenville and nothing has made my existence here any more pleasurable than our athletic exploits over the Tigers, the last 3-4 years.Besides being the right thing to do, I want EVERY COMPETITIVE EDGE we can get, to keep pounding Clemson.
I think USC lacks alumni who have shown a demonstrated ability to coach on the college level.
A lot of our alumni from our losing past seem to have a sense of entitlement that is a little bizarre to me.
I'm sure if we had alumni at lower college level working their way up that they would have a good opportunity to catch on here. like mike boynton did.
Doesn't seem like a whole lot of them want to work their way up, they just want to be handed the job.
Jay Graham didn't start at Tennessee.
There are probably guys who might get looks on different staffs but are not really good fits for our needs now.
They also need to get their degrees.
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