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Garcia/Shaw: We were trying to win, right?

  • o'spop said...

    littlejerryseinfeld.

    You keep asking how many points Garcia led us to vs. Shaw. Obviously, Garcia did more since he played the entire first three quarters.

    Why don't we break it down a bit more, if you don't mind. In the fourth quarter with the game on the line is where I'd like to focus. What happened before that was important, but what occurred in the 4th quarter is of the upmost importance. The reason is this. This is when you see if Garcia can mentally handle the pressure. It's been the issue that holds him back. It is when you have to win games in the SEC, particularly on the road.

    In 4th quarter drives, how many yards did each engineer? Which QB gave us a chance to score? Which QB looked like they could make plays?

    You said you've seen no argument for Shaw. You may miss the most important point and here is that argument.

    SOS called a roll-out on 3rd down. The roll out pass makes your reads as a QB fairly easy. You only have to read part of the field. Garcia should have read that Ace was open and let the ball go to the outside over the LB 8 yards in front of ACE. Garcia couldn't do that and decided not to try the pass. It was an easy read. Mistake number one on that play. Mistake number two - if you don't read that it's open, do what SOS has been harping on for a year and throw the ball away. Mistake number three - if you can't do either, just go down and allow us to punt while still down only 1 and try to pin Auburn deep. Mistake 4 - if you are going to do the unthinkable there and take a sack, at least wrap up with 2 hands since you fumbled 8 minutes ago. He didn't. At that point, a coach has to decide if a kid can handle the situation. I surmised from the 43rd row in Section 36 that it appeared Garcia fell into bad habits again.

    Spurrier made a decision that could have been right or wrong. It's certianly not a no-brainer that it was wrong. Maybe it wasn't apparent to you that Garcia repeated the same mistakes that have plagued him his career in a crucial situation. It does seem odd to put Shaw into that situation, but when you break down the last play by Garcia on top of the first fumble, one can make a very compelling argument for Shaw in that situation.

    these are exactly the points i have made in this thread. you can count on little jerry ignoring them.

    signature image signature image

    "Crito, I owe a cock to Asclepius; will you remember to pay the debt?"

    dutch30805

  • By no means am I saying that SG was the reason we lost. Kid played great for 3 quarters. I actually think we lost because we couldn't stop Auburn. Not because of our offense or SG.

    I am simply making an argument as to why I think SOS made the change. I wouldn't nitpick that play if it were not such an example of what frustrates SOS. It's the decision making process that keeps breaking down at critical times. SOS cannot understand why a QB can't read that play and make the play. I just watched the replay and Blackledge pointed out Sanders was open. SOS asked Garcia if he was him open, Garcia said, "who" and Spurrier said "Ace". Garcia didn't see the play developed.

    He also reverted to bad habits that they've tried to coach him out of for over a year now. At some point, SOS had to make the call as to whether or not SG could make a play to win the game. That was such a glaring play that summed up all the reasons SOS gets frustrated. He has basically asked SG to concentrate on two things this year - get rid of the ball on time and throw it away if you don't believe someone was open. We've all heard it over and over. I don't see how it could be emphasized any more than it has. He didn't do what they've begged him to do at a critical time and it was costly.

    SG played his heart out. For 3 quarters, he played the best of his career. Under the pressure of the 4th quarter, he reverted back to old habits. He is definitely NOT the reason we lost. Did it contribute in the 4th quarter? It'd be hard to argue otherwise. Did his play up to that point help give us the lead? Absolutely.

    I am making the argument for why Shaw was inserted. Not at all am I making an argument that SG lost us the game.

    For the record, nothing would make me happier than to see SG put it all together and become a first team AA. I pull for him every play as hard as I possibly can. I pull for whoever puts on that uniform. That said, I do understand that coaches have to make decisions to do what they think is best. I was personally very encouraged by the Shaw bounced back from that first INT. I am hoping SG bounces back as well.

    This post was edited by ospop4690 on 9/26/2010 at 10:24 PM

    ospop4690

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    LilJerySeinfeld

  • I saw nothing wrong with Shaw going in PERIOD! Garcia played lights out until two series in a row he turned the ball over. We led early because they turned the ball over. We still may have over came if AA just falls on the fumble. Did Shaw have two picks yes, but he did something Garcia never does. If you go back and watch. He looked off and pump faked right before he threw the ball. Yes he threw a pick, Bynes made a veteren play but he didn't read the eyes as the announcers said. The second pick Auburn was dropping everything knowing we could not run and had no TO left with 29 seconds, By the way the ball did hit AJ in the hands in the endzone. They just made a play.

    GamecockPride4905

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    LilJerySeinfeld

  • One other thing concerning Garcia, we all know he is tough as nails. We just don't need him to try and show it every game. There are those rare occasions that you sell out. He needs to go back and watch how many times he has turned the ball over trying to get and extra yard or two. There is no need to take those licks. Get what you can get and get down.

    GamecockPride4905

  • Gamecock/Pride said...

    One other thing concerning Garcia, we all know he is tough as nails. We just don't need him to try and show it every game. There are those rare occasions that you sell out. He needs to go back and watch how many times he has turned the ball over trying to get and extra yard or two. There is no need to take those licks. Get what you can get and get down.

    Our coaches have tried to coach this - but the kid has habits that are hard to break obviously

    LilJerySeinfeld

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    LilJerySeinfeld

  • Garcia is in a no win situation as far as I'm concerned. He played great for 3 quarters. That first fumble, I just can't blame him for. Great hit; just something that can happen. Now the second fumble he makes a mistake and we hear "he's gone back to his old ways". It's going to be like that for him the rest of his career. Anytime he makes a mistake people are going to say "he's reverted back to his old ways; he'll never change!" That's kind of unfair since I have yet to see a player that can play a perfect game every week, yet some of you on here expect him to.

    I think it's great we have someone like Shaw to push him, but I still believe he needs to feel that his coach is confident in him and supports him. He's not ever going to be at his best if he's out there playing like that the next play may be the one to put him on the bench. That's when mistakes can be made for sure. Maybe he had no business even going out there after that first fumble; he kind of looked like he had his bell rung anyway. But it appears to me he was benched because of a different reason.

    Oh well, let's just hope they all work hard over the next two weeks cause the big boys are coming to town. Let's look like the team I believe we really are.

    signature image

    Boogity8

  • You nailed it,If that pass to Ashlon had been caught the same people trashing Spurrier would be praising the move to Shaw.
    This game was lost on the defensive side of the ball. The offense could and did move the ball but did not get the ball back enough. Did Garcia make mistakes? Sure he did. So did Auburn.It all came down to who controlled the ball and unfortunately that was Auburn.

    strongfan

  • Boogity8 said...

    Garcia is in a no win situation as far as I'm concerned.

    He's in a no lose situation with you also. Do you ever get tired of defending him? We all want him to succeed, but I don't see how anyone can objectively not look at that 4th quarter and see the habits that won't break with him.

    The loss isn't entirely on him, but after several years of boneheaded plays it gets old.

    This post was edited by 97srad750 on 9/27/2010 at 8:10 AM

    97srad750

  • 97srad750 said...

    He's in a no lose situation with you also.

    That makes no sense to me; not sure what you mean by that, but whatever.

    Let me tell you I was as ticked as anyone when he fumbled. I was saying a few things that would probably surprise many of you but I'm still not ready to throw in the towel as far as he is concerned. I really like Connor Shaw and I am excited about our future with him as our QB but he is far from ready from what I have seen, to be our starting QB. Yes, he does lots of good things but he also does some of the very same things that Garcia used to do that people were so critical of.

    I think Shaw needs to come in and play but unless Garcia was hurt, my opinon is that Garcia should have stayed in there. At the very least should have been able to come in and play that last drive after Shaw had already thrown an interception. I was very surprised that Spurrier brought Connor in again actually.

    Yes, I'm a Garcia fan, you guys all know that, but bottom line, I want the team to win. I really could care less who is under center as long as he is truly the best guy for the job. At this point, even with Garcia's mistakes, I still believe he is our man.

    signature image

    Boogity8

  • Forget the Garcia/ Shaw issue.....we could not stop Newton and the other AU runners.....they beat us 6 yards at a time.

    Cock of the South

  • The problem with post like these is that both sides try and make points that they are right and it appears that they are putting one player or the other down. That is not always the case. Garcia imho was playing one of his best games to date. The numbers back that upand you saw signs of hope. Then he has two turnovers that were uncalled for. The first, while it was another of his high effort plays, was not needed as bad as ball security. The second, he just did not get rid of the ball quick enough.

    To the original point, did it cost us the game putting Shaw in??? I don't think so. Garcia had the lead for three quarters.They were not really stopping us either. When we turned the ball over they took the lead.

    as a QB you have to learn how to play with the lead and how to play from behind. playing with the lead allows you to be more cautious.

    GamecockPride4905