Online Now 1994

Palmetto Proving Grounds

The place for Gamecock talk, news and information

On this Board 1272
Record: 4035 (11/24/2012)

Online now 2043
Record: 9625 (10/8/2011)

Boards ▾

Palmetto Proving Grounds

The place for Gamecock talk, news and information

The Barnyard

The place for Gamecock football and recruiting talk, plus off-topic subjects.

The McGuire Room

The place for Gamecock basketball talk, news and information

The Sarge

The ultimate online destination for the latest scoop on Carolina's national power baseball program.

GCI Archives

Everything from Gamecock Insider Tony Morrell, in case you missed it.

Spurnotes Archives

The place to read all past editions of Spurnotes

Video Archive

Hall of Fame

The best of the best

Ticket Exchange

Buy and sell your Gamecock tickets here.

Test Forum

Feedback for TBS and 247Sports.

Reply

Horn Will come back

  • collegejoe said...

    The large majority of posters on this board, many of whom have been supporting the basketball program for a long damn time, want a change. They can use the FACTS to back it up ........ Dismal SEC record, losing to SoCon schools, downward trend in the record, one player remaining from two recruiting classes, etc. They also seem to actually WATCH the games and digest what they are seeing ......... such as no post presence on offense, no effective off the ball screens, no patterns, very porous defense, little weak side help, etc.

    Then we get statements praising our defense (thanks, o'spop for shooting that one down with basketball knowledge), praising some almost non-existent player improvement that will miraculously lead to a huge turnaround next year (or are we to be satisfied to wait until Year 8 ????), and, the best one of them all ........ "No coach can turn things around quickly here without cheating".

    If I really believed that last statement, I would quit caring. And I think the fans who really care about this program want a change.

    Why would an elite high school basketball player prefer USC over Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, Kansas, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, NC State, or Florida St.??? That is 15 teams. If they each get 3 per year of the best players, that accounts for the top 45 high school players in the eastern half of the US. Why would those best players choose USC over any of those schools?? Some of those schools are cheating too. You think USC is going to be able to compete with those schools for the best talent without cheating?????

    Jelsik Sturm

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Why would an elite high school basketball player prefer USC over Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, Kansas, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, NC State, or Florida St.??? That is 15 teams. If they each get 3 per year of the best players, that accounts for the top 45 high school players in the eastern half of the US. Why would those best players choose USC over any of those schools?? Some of those schools are cheating too. You think USC is going to be able to compete with those schools for the best talent without cheating?????

    "old Carolina"

    Pierce211 ●

  • Pierce211 said...

    "old Carolina"

    Fantasy land.

    Jelsik Sturm

  • You think were young and inexperienced now???

    There is a good chance Eric Smith and Richardson transfer at year end. Two sophs that are now playing less than 10min a game behind guys w less time in the program.

    When they go, we will have 8 scholarship players and will be losing our best player. I just don't see a scenario where this gets better.

    simms2000

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Why would an elite high school basketball player prefer USC over Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, Kansas, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, NC State, or Florida St.??? That is 15 teams. If they each get 3 per year of the best players, that accounts for the top 45 high school players in the eastern half of the US. Why would those best players choose USC over any of those schools?? Some of those schools are cheating too. You think USC is going to be able to compete with those schools for the best talent without cheating?????

    If that's the case, we better find someone that can coach with less talent. We sure as heck don't have one now.

    With Horn, the won't choose us. You seriously can't understand why we would ever outrecruit NCSU, UVA or FSU? Didnt realize those were national powers every year.
    You guys have every excuse there is.

    This post was edited by ospop4690 on 2/5/2012 at 3:53 PM

    ospop4690

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Why would an elite high school basketball player prefer USC over Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, Kansas, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, NC State, or Florida St.??? That is 15 teams. If they each get 3 per year of the best players, that accounts for the top 45 high school players in the eastern half of the US. Why would those best players choose USC over any of those schools?? Some of those schools are cheating too. You think USC is going to be able to compete with those schools for the best talent without cheating?????

    Why would the #1 football player in the country prefer USC over Florida, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Ohio St, Texas, etc?

    There is a TON more talent than the top 50 players. The schools you mention above recruit nationally, some globally. So, scrape the top 50 players from GA, NC and FLA combined out and you've still got plenty of talent to recruit. Fact - the last player our hoops program signed from one of the deepest states in the southeat(GA) was Dominique Archie. Pretty sad. We should have laser beam focus on the ATL area every year. Mine the shjt out of it. No, you're probably not going to sign the Austin Rivers or the Kidd-Gilcrests. But, you also shouldn't be chasing the Spinellas, the Jeffersons or anyone from NY.

    europhilz ●

  • Took the words out of my mouth DKC. Watch Marshall coach. He is worth the price of admission and always teaching. And to me the biggest positive of Marshall is he learned from one of the best coaches ever, John Kresse. He was his right hand man for his best teams.
    Phatcock hit the nail on the head. Recruiting is dead and IMHO that is the main reason he must go.

    rev1616

  • I want some of what you been drinking.

    BigDave ●

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Why would an elite high school basketball player prefer USC over Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, Kansas, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, NC State, or Florida St.??? That is 15 teams. If they each get 3 per year of the best players, that accounts for the top 45 high school players in the eastern half of the US. Why would those best players choose USC over any of those schools?? Some of those schools are cheating too. You think USC is going to be able to compete with those schools for the best talent without cheating?????

    comical....I just want us to be competitive... and you want us to recruit the top 50 players?? You don't have to clean up in the top 50 to be competitive.

    GCIT

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Why would an elite high school basketball player prefer USC over Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, Kansas, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, NC State, or Florida St.??? That is 15 teams. If they each get 3 per year of the best players, that accounts for the top 45 high school players in the eastern half of the US. Why would those best players choose USC over any of those schools?? Some of those schools are cheating too. You think USC is going to be able to compete with those schools for the best talent without cheating?????

    I don't know. Why do they pick Baylor and choose to spend 1-4 years in Waco Freaking Texas? Because Baylor has a coach that gets it done. That is the bottom line.

    signature image

    Simply the best.

    Cockfather ●

  • Cockfather said...

    I don't know. Why do they pick Baylor and choose to spend 1-4 years in Waco Freaking Texas? Because Baylor has a coach that gets it done. That is the bottom line.

    I am not defending Horn. But Scott Drew is a crook. A hard working crook, but a crook nonetheless.

    signature image

    81 Alumnus ●

  • 81 Alumnus said...

    I am not defending Horn. But Scott Drew is a crook. A hard working crook, but a crook nonetheless.

    Yep. You are right there.

    ospop4690

  • 81 Alumnus said...

    I am not defending Horn. But Scott Drew is a crook. A hard working crook, but a crook nonetheless.

    when they go on probation, let me know, until then its all accusations by programs that don't work as hard as he does.

    He's been getting players for years and all I hear is "he's a crook". Why? Because he gets it done, so people must assume he is cheating.

    signature image

    Simply the best.

    Cockfather ●

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Why would an elite high school basketball player prefer USC over Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, Kansas, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, NC State, or Florida St.??? That is 15 teams. If they each get 3 per year of the best players, that accounts for the top 45 high school players in the eastern half of the US. Why would those best players choose USC over any of those schools?? Some of those schools are cheating too. You think USC is going to be able to compete with those schools for the best talent without cheating?????

    Your "must cheat to win" mantra is absurd. Each year in the NCAA tournament there are numerous well coached teams that aren't in the Kentucky/Duke/UNC/Kansas category. Many of the these teams play tough D, play together, have maybe two go to guys, and surround them with tough role players. You don't have to out recruit Duke and UNC to play competitive basketball.

    We have the resources to succeed. Eddie Fogler was a good coach, but lost the fire to recruit. Dave Odom and Bill Foster are food people who were tired of he recriting wars and the ACC competition when they came to Carolina. George Felton had a chance, but personal issues came in to play. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AD TO FIND THE RIGHT LEADER. There are young coaches out there who will be household names in five years. I wish DH was one of them, but it is obvious his teams are not well coached. You have to be blind to not see that.

    collegejoe

  • o'spop said...

    If that's the case, we better find someone that can coach with less talent. We sure as heck don't have one now.

    With Horn, the won't choose us. You seriously can't understand why we would ever outrecruit NCSU, UVA or FSU? Didnt realize those were national powers every year. You guys have every excuse there is.

    All of those schools have a far better history than USC does in basketball, and much more recent success. If a player gets an offer from NCSU, UVA, or FSU, why would they choose USC instead?

    Jelsik Sturm

  • europhilz said...

    Why would the #1 football player in the country prefer USC over Florida, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Ohio St, Texas, etc?

    There is a TON more talent than the top 50 players. The schools you mention above recruit nationally, some globally. So, scrape the top 50 players from GA, NC and FLA combined out and you've still got plenty of talent to recruit. Fact - the last player our hoops program signed from one of the deepest states in the southeat(GA) was Dominique Archie. Pretty sad. We should have laser beam focus on the ATL area every year. Mine the shjt out of it. No, you're probably not going to sign the Austin Rivers or the Kidd-Gilcrests. But, you also shouldn't be chasing the Spinellas, the Jeffersons or anyone from NY.

    The subject is college basketball. Trying to compare football to basketball is apples and oranges.

    Yes, I understand that there are some good players outside of the top 50 players, but I think the guy I was responding to was calling for USC to recruit an elite player, and that would be someone in the top 25. That's why I asked the question: why would an elite player choose USC over the better programs? There is no reason for them to choose USC. And they don't, unless they are from SC, and grew up a USC fan.

    Jelsik Sturm

  • Cockfather said...

    I don't know. Why do they pick Baylor and choose to spend 1-4 years in Waco Freaking Texas? Because Baylor has a coach that gets it done. That is the bottom line.

    Because Baylor pays them to come to Waco.

    Jelsik Sturm

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Because Baylor pays them to come to Waco.

    Who have they paid and how much did the players get?

    Spurrier...I appreciate him plenty

    MrBigAl

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    There isn't a college coach in the country, at any level, that doesn't know basketball fundamentals, and how to teach them. Colleges don't hire people as coaches who are unfamiliar with the fundamentals of the sport they coach.

    So using your logic here Dabo is an excellent x's and o's coach?

    simms2000

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    There isn't a college coach in the country, at any level, that doesn't know basketball fundamentals, and how to teach them. Colleges don't hire people as coaches who are unfamiliar with the fundamentals of the sport they coach.

    This post was edited by simms2000 on 2/5/2012 at 8:03 PM

    simms2000

  • MrBigAl said...

    Who have they paid and how much did the players get?

    I do not subscribe to the "you must cheat to win" cop out or the "Horn failed because he was too honest" mantra.

    That's not what this is about.

    But you can't get Quincy Miller and Deuce Bello out of North Carolina with offers from Duke, NC State and Wake, not to mention Kentucky and Lousiville to come to Waco, TX honestly. It doesn't happen, and while getting Perry Jones III away from Texas, TAMU and Kansas didn't seem as impossible because he is from Texas, he's already served a suspension for impermissible benefits.

    Like Jerry Tarkanian and Eddie Sutton and John Calipari before him, it doesn't mean Drew doesn't work very hard and teach the game well, it just means he's a crook.

    This post was edited by 81 Alumnus on 2/5/2012 at 8:04 PM

    signature image

    81 Alumnus ●

  • 81 Alumnus said...

    I do not subscribe to the "you must cheat to win" cop out or the "Horn failed because he was too honest" mantra.

    That's not what this is about.

    But you can't get Quincy Miller and Deuce Bello out of North Carolina with offers from Duke, NC State and Wake, not to mention Kentucky and Lousiville to come to Waco, TX honestly. It doesn't happen, and while getting Perry Jones III away from Texas, TAMU and Kansas didn't seem as impossible because he is from Texas, he's already served a suspension for impermissible benefits.

    Like Jerry Tarkanian and Eddie Sutton and John Calipari before him, it doesn't mean Drew doesn't work very hard and teach the game well, it just means he's a crook.

    So, you're assuming that Drew cheats because of the success he has recruiting against top competition?

    Spurrier...I appreciate him plenty

    MrBigAl

  • simms2000 said...

    So using your logic here Dabo is an excellent x's and o's coach?

    Do you have to be an "excellent x's and o's coach" to know the fundamentals of the game? I don't think so.

    Jelsik Sturm

  • MrBigAl said...

    Who have they paid and how much did the players get?

    I don't know. If you think elite players are going to Waco Texas to play basketball because of the charming personality of Scott Drew, I would say you are very naive.

    Jelsik Sturm

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    I don't know. If you think elite players are going to Waco Texas to play basketball because of the charming personality of Scott Drew, I would say you are very naive.

    You're just making excuses for our coach's recruiting failures. Any other coach you'd like to mention that cheats so we won't bother to bring him up in our basketball discussions? If you do, it'd be great to include mention of any evidence you have so we'll know you're not just making stuff up.

    Spurrier...I appreciate him plenty

    MrBigAl

South Carolina
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports