Palmetto Proving Grounds

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MrBigAl said...

Not everyone shares your opinion about each recruit. That doesn't mean they have an ax to grind. They just disagree.

"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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MrBigAl said...

I felt that Spurrier jumped the shark after the Vandy win. I felt that way because it was obvious that he wasn't going to bench Garcia no matter how poorly he played. Sure enough, He played Garcia against Auburn and we lost the game because of it. We lost the SEC East because of that game.

If you find my posts annoying don't read them. On the other hand If you want to continue whining about the content of my posts that's okay, too.

Has Steve Spurrier jumped the shark?

Was the win at Gainesville which clinched the SEC East title the zenith of Spurriers tenure at USC?

southcarolina.247sports.com

"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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crobertsUSCfan said...

Like most when they taste success they start to feel intitled and deserving. It does seem the fan base has gotten a little high and mighty. I want the best recruits and want the team to get better but two very good years doesn't mean we are going to start recruiting like Alabama. I use bama cause one poster actually said look at Bama's recruits they have 11 with all but one 4 or 5 stars. What, now we are on the same level as Alabama because of our two good seasons. Let's tone it back and trust the coaches.

Another great point Josh mentioned the past two years the talent in SC is way down. The reason we got better and recruitted top players was most were from SC (Lattimore, Jefferies, Gilmore, Clowney etc..). There hasn't been close to the talent instate as 2009 and 2010 and 2011 for that matter. We are not going into florida and georgia and pulling the top talent from those states not yet any way. Until than when SC is down things might be a little tougher.

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CockOracle said...

Mr. Roberts, Since you decided to call me out for posting the commitments of Alabama as compared to USC, I feel the need to correct your assumption. I do not believe that we can, at this time, out recruit Alabama. Bama has too much history and they have a coach that sells himself very well on National TV while he is winning his SEC Championships and those NC Titles. My point in using his current recruiting class was to point out exactly what I said, “Coming off our greatest season in history, I thought we could upgrade our recruiting.”

No matter what you may think and say, the fact is that to become a program that wins 9 or more games every season we have to improve our recruiting efforts overall. (have you ever actually listened to Jr speak about this?) To be able to compete against the top 4 SEC programs every season, we have to upgrade our recruiting to at least match them or come closer overall, top to bottom. We only have to play Alabama, Auburn and LSU 6 out of 10 regular seasons, so I guess your way of thinking is that we can’t out recruit LSU or Auburn, either. We have to play UGa, Fla, Arkansas and for a time Mizzo every season. So we can, have and should out recruit these guys when you consider each team’s top 10-15 recruits. The key is to bring up our 16 thru 25 recruits to include less "project" than they take on. So let’s leave Alabama out and just look at the current teams we must out recruit and where they are today;

Auburn – 8 commits – 4 – ****, 3 - ***, 1 - ** (this recruit is a kicker and is rated the #1 Punter in the country) Florida – 15 commits – 9 - ****, 6 - *** (all 6 *** are rated 5.7 – to receive **** recruit needs 5.8 rating) UGa. – 15 commits – 7 - ****, 8 - *** (5 of their *** are rated 5.7 – to receive **** recruit needs 5.8 rating) LSU – 9 commits – 4 - ****, 5 - *** Tenn. – 4 commits – 2 ****, 2 - *** Vandy – 7 commits – 2 ****, 5 *** Mizzo – 8 commits – 2 ****, 6 ***

As of today, two teams that we have beaten on the field 2 years in a row, are currently out recruiting us and did so last year as well. Historically, these two programs have been much better than us in prior years. We caught them and passed them but it seems they took notice and are determined to overcome us, first by out recruiting us then on the field. Sorry, I don’t want to go back to trying to stay ahead of Vandy and Uk while losing 3 of 4 to either of those programs.

So let’s all be clear about a few assumptions:

I question USC offering “projects” early in the recruiting process because I feel (that would be my opinion) that is not upgrading our recruiting. (by the way an offer is just that, if the kid offered jumps on it, he's a commit) Sooner or later we either land more 4 & 5 star recruits than 3 & 2 star, or we will be bi-passed by the programs we should compete against every year if we are to remain one of the Top 5 SEC teams. You are entitled to your opinion that we seem to have the greatest coaching staff in America so we can continue to sign 4 to 5 “projects” every year and it never hurt us. They all are just going to become great players because we’ve had a few that did. Sorry, everything in this world revolves around math and the averages are stacked against you. Even Clemson will benefit from all their 4 and 5 star recruits sooner rather than later.

I understand recruiting, unlike some on this site I’ve been around for a long time. I understand sometimes you offer one recruit to land another better recruit later at the same school. We just signed two brothers, knowing one should be successful and hoping the other (project) would work hard and become a better player. I hope it happens but I have seen the good and the very bad in USC’s recruiting. The bad includes our current head coach, who lost over 30% of his first 3 recruiting classes. He allowed his OLine coach to recruit guys that over half shouldn’t have been offered D-1 scholarships and the program suffered for 5 yrs because of it. He isn’t perfect. In fact, as hard as this is to believe the program turned on recruiting when Ellis Johnson got heavily involved in the process. Even Spurrier admitted as much.

We have a new staff of defensive recruiters that have not proven themselves so I am sorry but they don’t get to ride the credit of other coach’s work. They have to earn their place. This might be a shock to some as well, Spurrier can be lazy! He has stated for years that he doesn’t like recruiting and he allows his coaches to make their own choices in recruits without much if any input from him. He goes where they tell him he is needed and he does a good sells job with the families. Just as he said with the hiring of the new asst coaches, “well that’s who Coach Ward felt was best”.

It worked under Johnson but the jury is still out on Ward and his new asst coaches. Like someone said one good year, in Wards case, doesn't make you a legend in recruiting. I want to see him succeed, but I have a right to express my opinion and my concern until they do. I am sorry but I have had enough of the losing to programs that shouldn’t think they can compete with us. I don’t want to see another coach get lazy to the point that they allow our recruiting efforts to bring in players that might be decent D-1 players one day while not landing recruits that stand a better chance of playing from day one. To actually win the SEC and remain in the hunt year after year, we have to begin recruiting more and more players that are not projects, agin in my opinion and based on successful programs. I don't want USC to be the next Kansas.

It seems that on this site more and more, any poster that posts a question or asks a question as to why our coaches are doing something, is too often thrown under the bus as being negative or thinking he knows more than the coach. I am a human being with an education. Therefore, I do not follow blindly just because. I love USC. I support the sports programs with my money, my attendance and legal services. While I started out in school somewhere else, I transferred to USC and ended my playing career with a torn up knee. I love USC. I am proud of what Coaches Spurrier, Tanner and others are doing at USC now. I know several coaches on both the football and baseball staffs. I respect them highly. But I still have a right to question them and will as long as they accept a pay check from the school I financially support.

Just because I question them, does not mean that I am being negative. Just because I do not agree with every statement or article that is written by the staff of this site, also doesn’t mean that I know more than they or think my opinion is the gospel and everyone that disagrees with me is just stupid. It is just my opinion and questions that I am concerned with. Steve Spurrier is paid to continue to build this program to a true championship team and I believe he will. But I thought Lou Holtz was on the right track to that as well. I thought Eddie Fogler was too. But both of them got lazy in recruiting after limited success and they had to be replaced. But while they were going through the motions of recruiting, they were also losing on the field or court. When they had to be replaced it was fans like me that had to endure the insults and jokes from other team fans as well as our getting beat by those teams. So excuse me if I question something I don’t like or understand that our coaches do, I have earned the right by remaining a loyal fan of this school for 47 yrs.

Finally, you and anyone else have a few options. You can read my words and understand that I am not trying to be negative and usually I support my opinions with facts but I will not always toe the party line in blindly supporting any coach. You can dis-agree and point out to me why you think I am wrong, or you could answer my question with something other than, cause the coach said so or an insult. You can also, press that ignore button on this site and not read my opinions any longer. You could then focus more on the self proclaimed true believers that see no wrong in anything as long as it is done by a USC coach even to the point of arguing that Darrin Horn deserved another year. Classic! Or that some player is the world’s best because he happens to play for USC and he is just Awesome because he is, well just Awesome.

You have a choice.

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CockOracle said...

Mr. Roberts, Since you decided to call me out for posting the commitments of Alabama as compared to USC, I feel the need to correct your assumption. I do not believe that we can, at this time, out recruit Alabama. Bama has too much history and they have a coach that sells himself very well on National TV while he is winning his SEC Championships and those NC Titles. My point in using his current recruiting class was to point out exactly what I said, “Coming off our greatest season in history, I thought we could upgrade our recruiting.”

No matter what you may think and say, the fact is that to become a program that wins 9 or more games every season we have to improve our recruiting efforts overall. (have you ever actually listened to Jr speak about this?) To be able to compete against the top 4 SEC programs every season, we have to upgrade our recruiting to at least match them or come closer overall, top to bottom. We only have to play Alabama, Auburn and LSU 6 out of 10 regular seasons, so I guess your way of thinking is that we can’t out recruit LSU or Auburn, either. We have to play UGa, Fla, Arkansas and for a time Mizzo every season. So we can, have and should out recruit these guys when you consider each team’s top 10-15 recruits. The key is to bring up our 16 thru 25 recruits to include less "project" than they take on. So let’s leave Alabama out and just look at the current teams we must out recruit and where they are today;

Auburn – 8 commits – 4 – ****, 3 - ***, 1 - ** (this recruit is a kicker and is rated the #1 Punter in the country) Florida – 15 commits – 9 - ****, 6 - *** (all 6 *** are rated 5.7 – to receive **** recruit needs 5.8 rating) UGa. – 15 commits – 7 - ****, 8 - *** (5 of their *** are rated 5.7 – to receive **** recruit needs 5.8 rating) LSU – 9 commits – 4 - ****, 5 - *** Tenn. – 4 commits – 2 ****, 2 - *** Vandy – 7 commits – 2 ****, 5 *** Mizzo – 8 commits – 2 ****, 6 ***

As of today, two teams that we have beaten on the field 2 years in a row, are currently out recruiting us and did so last year as well. Historically, these two programs have been much better than us in prior years. We caught them and passed them but it seems they took notice and are determined to overcome us, first by out recruiting us then on the field. Sorry, I don’t want to go back to trying to stay ahead of Vandy and Uk while losing 3 of 4 to either of those programs.

So let’s all be clear about a few assumptions:

I question USC offering “projects” early in the recruiting process because I feel (that would be my opinion) that is not upgrading our recruiting. (by the way an offer is just that, if the kid offered jumps on it, he's a commit) Sooner or later we either land more 4 & 5 star recruits than 3 & 2 star, or we will be bi-passed by the programs we should compete against every year if we are to remain one of the Top 5 SEC teams. You are entitled to your opinion that we seem to have the greatest coaching staff in America so we can continue to sign 4 to 5 “projects” every year and it never hurt us. They all are just going to become great players because we’ve had a few that did. Sorry, everything in this world revolves around math and the averages are stacked against you. Even Clemson will benefit from all their 4 and 5 star recruits sooner rather than later.

I understand recruiting, unlike some on this site I’ve been around for a long time. I understand sometimes you offer one recruit to land another better recruit later at the same school. We just signed two brothers, knowing one should be successful and hoping the other (project) would work hard and become a better player. I hope it happens but I have seen the good and the very bad in USC’s recruiting. The bad includes our current head coach, who lost over 30% of his first 3 recruiting classes. He allowed his OLine coach to recruit guys that over half shouldn’t have been offered D-1 scholarships and the program suffered for 5 yrs because of it. He isn’t perfect. In fact, as hard as this is to believe the program turned on recruiting when Ellis Johnson got heavily involved in the process. Even Spurrier admitted as much.

We have a new staff of defensive recruiters that have not proven themselves so I am sorry but they don’t get to ride the credit of other coach’s work. They have to earn their place. This might be a shock to some as well, Spurrier can be lazy! He has stated for years that he doesn’t like recruiting and he allows his coaches to make their own choices in recruits without much if any input from him. He goes where they tell him he is needed and he does a good sells job with the families. Just as he said with the hiring of the new asst coaches, “well that’s who Coach Ward felt was best”.

It worked under Johnson but the jury is still out on Ward and his new asst coaches. Like someone said one good year, in Wards case, doesn't make you a legend in recruiting. I want to see him succeed, but I have a right to express my opinion and my concern until they do. I am sorry but I have had enough of the losing to programs that shouldn’t think they can compete with us. I don’t want to see another coach get lazy to the point that they allow our recruiting efforts to bring in players that might be decent D-1 players one day while not landing recruits that stand a better chance of playing from day one. To actually win the SEC and remain in the hunt year after year, we have to begin recruiting more and more players that are not projects, agin in my opinion and based on successful programs. I don't want USC to be the next Kansas.

It seems that on this site more and more, any poster that posts a question or asks a question as to why our coaches are doing something, is too often thrown under the bus as being negative or thinking he knows more than the coach. I am a human being with an education. Therefore, I do not follow blindly just because. I love USC. I support the sports programs with my money, my attendance and legal services. While I started out in school somewhere else, I transferred to USC and ended my playing career with a torn up knee. I love USC. I am proud of what Coaches Spurrier, Tanner and others are doing at USC now. I know several coaches on both the football and baseball staffs. I respect them highly. But I still have a right to question them and will as long as they accept a pay check from the school I financially support.

Just because I question them, does not mean that I am being negative. Just because I do not agree with every statement or article that is written by the staff of this site, also doesn’t mean that I know more than they or think my opinion is the gospel and everyone that disagrees with me is just stupid. It is just my opinion and questions that I am concerned with. Steve Spurrier is paid to continue to build this program to a true championship team and I believe he will. But I thought Lou Holtz was on the right track to that as well. I thought Eddie Fogler was too. But both of them got lazy in recruiting after limited success and they had to be replaced. But while they were going through the motions of recruiting, they were also losing on the field or court. When they had to be replaced it was fans like me that had to endure the insults and jokes from other team fans as well as our getting beat by those teams. So excuse me if I question something I don’t like or understand that our coaches do, I have earned the right by remaining a loyal fan of this school for 47 yrs.

Finally, you and anyone else have a few options. You can read my words and understand that I am not trying to be negative and usually I support my opinions with facts but I will not always toe the party line in blindly supporting any coach. You can dis-agree and point out to me why you think I am wrong, or you could answer my question with something other than, cause the coach said so or an insult. You can also, press that ignore button on this site and not read my opinions any longer. You could then focus more on the self proclaimed true believers that see no wrong in anything as long as it is done by a USC coach even to the point of arguing that Darrin Horn deserved another year. Classic! Or that some player is the world’s best because he happens to play for USC and he is just Awesome because he is, well just Awesome.

You have a choice.

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Jefe` said...

FIFY

"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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MrBigAl said...

I felt that Spurrier jumped the shark after the Vandy win. I felt that way because it was obvious that he wasn't going to bench Garcia no matter how poorly he played. Sure enough, He played Garcia against Auburn and we lost the game because of it. We lost the SEC East because of that game.

If you find my posts annoying don't read them. On the other hand If you want to continue whining about the content of my posts that's okay, too.

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MrBigAl said...

I felt that Spurrier jumped the shark after the Vandy win. I felt that way because it was obvious that he wasn't going to bench Garcia no matter how poorly he played. Sure enough, He played Garcia against Auburn and we lost the game because of it. We lost the SEC East because of that game.

If you find my posts annoying don't read them. On the other hand If you want to continue whining about the content of my posts that's okay, too.