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I've developed a theory on the Horn situation...

  • We are about to complete a season that will equal the worst in recent SEC history. By any measure, Horn has been a complete flop, with the possible exception of his record against Clemson. You know how bad it has to be to make fans disregard beating Clemson? It's been basically disregarded as meaningless. We're losing Cooke this year and a couple of others will certainly leave or be escorted off the team, and only one recruit is coming in. The team will not be any better next season barring a miraculous level of improvement by every player. By waiting another year to dump Horn, the school will only save a modest amount of money. I've checked a number of sources online and all say the buyout drops to 1.25 million next month, but none mention what it becomes after that. I assume that means we will only have to pay him his salary for the last year of his contract, which is $1.1 mil. By the way, as an aside, is there anyone in college sports stealing money more successfully than Darrin Horn? Think about your job. Horn is making nearly 20 times what I make, and by any standard of measure, I have been successful at my job while he has been an abject failure.

    Anyway, possibly the real perk in waiting another year is that nobody gives a damn already, so attendance won't suffer much. The athletic department can donate tickets to schools, churches, Bi-Lo, Fort Jackson, the homeless, etc. and maybe 20% of those free tickets would be used. Also, the roster will get shorter, and since Horn isn't capable of bringing in any new recruits, there will be fewer Horn recruits on the team for the new coach and those who remain will be one year closer to being gone. For some coaches, a clean slate might be intriguing.

    If none of this ridiculousness works for you, then how in the hell could anyone support retaining this hack for naother season?

    MCR

  • Great post and ANY loss of $$$ from buyout will quickly be recooped on ticket sales etc... Not to mention the intangible benefits of infusing HOPE

    noscreenname

  • MCR said...

    We are about to complete a season that will equal the worst in recent SEC history. By any measure, Horn has been a complete flop, with the possible exception of his record against Clemson. You know how bad it has to be to make fans disregard beating Clemson? It's been basically disregarded as meaningless. We're losing Cooke this year and a couple of others will certainly leave or be escorted off the team, and only one recruit is coming in. The team will not be any better next season barring a miraculous level of improvement by every player. By waiting another year to dump Horn, the school will only save a modest amount of money. I've checked a number of sources online and all say the buyout drops to 1.25 million next month, but none mention what it becomes after that. I assume that means we will only have to pay him his salary for the last year of his contract, which is $1.1 mil. By the way, as an aside, is there anyone in college sports stealing money more successfully than Darrin Horn? Think about your job. Horn is making nearly 20 times what I make, and by any standard of measure, I have been successful at my job while he has been an abject failure.

    Anyway, possibly the real perk in waiting another year is that nobody gives a damn already, so attendance won't suffer much. The athletic department can donate tickets to schools, churches, Bi-Lo, Fort Jackson, the homeless, etc. and maybe 20% of those free tickets would be used. Also, the roster will get shorter, and since Horn isn't capable of bringing in any new recruits, there will be fewer Horn recruits on the team for the new coach and those who remain will be one year closer to being gone. For some coaches, a clean slate might be intriguing.

    If none of this ridiculousness works for you, then how in the hell could anyone support retaining this hack for naother season?

    Actually the 1.25 million is how much he would owe us if he left. The buyout on our end would be 2.4 million with it dropping to 1.6 million after next year.

    cocksfan23

  • cocksfan23 said...

    Actually the 1.25 million is how much he would owe us if he left. The buyout on our end would be 2.4 million with it dropping to 1.6 million after next year.

    I was under the impression it drops to 1.25 mil. Either way you bite the bullet.

    signature image

    roosterrizk1

  • My understanding is that the buyout DOES DROP to 1.25 mill in April, but it drops on April 25, the day Horn signed his original deal. If that is true, Horn has one of the craftiest agents in college athletics. A school can't avail themselves of the lower buyout until after most of the hot coaches have been snapped up by the programs looking. It also (if true) makes the guy who negotiated the deal on our end look like a first class rube.

    Bosscock

  • Bosscock said...

    My understanding is that the buyout DOES DROP to 1.25 mill in April, but it drops on April 25, the day Horn signed his original deal. If that is true, Horn has one of the craftiest agents in college athletics. A school can't avail themselves of the lower buyout until after most of the hot coaches have been snapped up by the programs looking. It also (if true) makes the guy who negotiated the deal on our end look like a first class rube.

    You're making some mighty big assumptions:

    1) All the available good coaches will be hired within 3 weeks after the NCAA tournament ends

    2) Our athletic director will wait until after he fires the basketball coach to start putting feelers out for replacements.

    I don't think our AD was a rube (first class or otherwise). Nor do I think Horn's agent was being crafty. I think that (April 25) is just the anniversary of the day Horn signed his deal.

    CountCockula

  • Also in 2009, the main concern by fans was how he was going to be hired away by Kentucky, and how he was so underpaid and how stupid hyman was for not having a big buyout.

    Now the world will end because a modest buyout in some minds will prevent us from firing him before his fifth year.

    VBCock

  • Every SEC school that fires a coach, has to pay millions.

    SirCockALot

  • The buyout owed Horn is no larger than that of most coaches with time left on their contract at a school with BCS money. Hyman got Horn for next to nothing by today's standard and needed to sweeten the deal after Horn tied for the SEC East title in his first season and was at least in the mix for the Xavier job. The raise he received brought him to the middle of the pack among SEC coaches. All perfectly reasonable behavior by Hyman.

    The issue is now, Hyman may be being penny wise and pound foolish by keeping a dead man walking around for a year to save a mlllion or two in a $65 million budget. And that's only if you assume that hiring a new coach wouldn't bring in any additional revenues.

    signature image

    81 Alumnus

  • 81 Alumnus said...

    The buyout owed Horn is no larger than that of most coaches with time left on their contract at a school with BCS money. Hyman got Horn for next to nothing by today's standard and needed to sweeten the deal after Horn tied for the SEC East title in his first season and was at least in the mix for the Xavier job. The raise he received brought him to the middle of the pack among SEC coaches. All perfectly reasonable behavior by Hyman.

    The issue is now, Hyman may be being penny wise and pound foolish by keeping a dead man walking around for a year to save a mlllion or two in a $65 million budget. And that's only if you assume that hiring a new coach wouldn't bring in any additional revenues.

    Ironically enough, the position of most people on (I guess Gamecock Central at the time) board prior to the extension and buyout being signed was that Hyman was a cheap skate because he wasn't paying Horn enough and the buyout wasn't big enough and he would probably be leaving for UK or some big time job because our AD was so cheap and stupid.

    Stand in place long enough around here and you will get dizzy.

    I guess people are consistent in saying that whether the issue is hiring, firing, retaining, negotiating, or extending Horn, the problem is Hyman is too cheap and stupid. They're not sure exactly how that is the case and they might take diametrically opposite positions on whether they like Horn or hate him, but at the end of the day they are confident that Hyman is the issue.

    Granted if they had their way Horn's salary and buyout would be so great as to give the people in Lexington pause to even consider hiring him, but what would the problem be with that. It's only someone else's money.

    Franky, I actually doubt that the buyout plays a whole lot into the decision. In reality, it is totally in line with what most coaches who have any success in their tenure would have. maybe on the low side, really, since Horn still is paid near the bottom of the wage scale in the SEC.

    This post was edited by VBCock on 3/2/2012 at 4:19 PM

    VBCock

  • I'm typically pro-Hyman, and I've been on his side in most situations that have created some controversy. As far as I am concerned, this isn't even a Hyman issue right now, since he is most certainly not going to tip his hand if his plan is to fire Horn. He is clearly going to maintain the same level of support that he has. I brought this up because I can't figure out if there are actually people who can come up with a basketball reason to keep Hyman. I get the financial issues, and I understand the concerns about starting over again. However, basketball-wise, we're in the toilet and I can't imagine any argument that suggests we're not.

    MCR

  • MCR said...

    I'm typically pro-Hyman, and I've been on his side in most situations that have created some controversy. As far as I am concerned, this isn't even a Hyman issue right now, since he is most certainly not going to tip his hand if his plan is to fire Horn. He is clearly going to maintain the same level of support that he has. I brought this up because I can't figure out if there are actually people who can come up with a basketball reason to keep Hyman. I get the financial issues, and I understand the concerns about starting over again. However, basketball-wise, we're in the toilet and I can't imagine any argument that suggests we're not.


    I think any argument would form around the core of Ellington, Leonard, Gill, Slawson, and Harris developing and maybe making an NIT run.

    That's not impossible. I'm not sure what it really does for recruiting or for fans or for his job tenure if he managed it, but it is possible.

    I really can see a decent team if they looked better coached on the floor, but I don't see how he really does much after they graduate.

    I think he probably does have a good relationship with instate talent, but I just have a hard time seeing him land those who have much better options when it all comes down to it.

    He probably has to make the NCAA to really get any kind of security and good feeling and I just do not see any chance that happens.

    VBCock

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    E-mail: jc@247Sports.com/Twitter: @jcshurburtt/Instagram jcshurburtt

    JC Shurburtt ●

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    SpuremCocks

  • VBCock said...

    I think any argument would form around the core of Ellington, Leonard, Gill, Slawson, and Harris developing and maybe making an NIT run.

    That's not impossible. I'm not sure what it really does for recruiting or for fans or for his job tenure if he managed it, but it is possible.

    I really can see a decent team if they looked better coached on the floor, but I don't see how he really does much after they graduate.

    I think he probably does have a good relationship with instate talent, but I just have a hard time seeing him land those who have much better options when it all comes down to it.

    He probably has to make the NCAA to really get any kind of security and good feeling and I just do not see any chance that happens.

    I can see improvement but I'm not sure I can picture a post-season run of any kind. Maybe a 17-15 type year with 6 wins in the SEC but I can't see more than that. We're just not talented enough or deep enough.

    MCR

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