Palmetto Proving Grounds

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ceece said...

I didn't compare duke to South Carolina. I specified examples on the various ways 'double moves' can be used against varying amounts of pressure, or lack there of.

I also specified that i believe Clemson will get sacked on Saturday, sonething that didn't happen last weekend. So once again, I wasn't comparing the overall ability of nc states defense to South Carolina's, but to date, NC States defense had the most amount of sacks that Clemson had faced. Now, South Carolina's defense will have it.

Ally will beat the crap out of Uga.

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Jefe` said...

Yeah, but the fact that it's wrong makes it wrong. There isn't any comparison between our DL and Auburn's. Hell, we have 2 backup DEs in the conference's sack leader list.

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jack lord said...

I think the point was that Clemson can counter different coverages with different patterns. Our d line is very good, particularly when Clowney is 100%, which is not certain.

Florida State - - - I know it played in the ACC ---- has a defense loaded with athletes. Clemson still put up a bunch of points against FSU. I think that Clemson will score on us. Its too versatile, but we can still win the game if our offense plays very well.

The Clemson guy is getting torched for making some good points. And, I would take Nuke or Sammy over any of our receivers, and Boyd, this year, over Shaw.

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ceece said...

I beg to differ. Some of Clemson's success comes on deep balls, not a lot of it. There are variations on attacking man coverage. Against Duke, pass pro held up and Tajh could wait all day for some double moves, looking off safeties or waiting for WR's to just flat out our run the defense to a spot.

Duke doesn't jump routes though. NC St does a lot more of that, they also lead the ACC in sacks. They got torched a few times deep because the oline blocked well.

The variables of the 'double moves' are based on pass protection and how much the DB's jump routes. South Carolina's db's like to jump routes more than any other team Clemson has faced this year. With a single safety look and aggressive man coverage on underneath stuff. Against a good pass rush, these route trees can be shrunken. Instead of setting up a double move with 10-12 yard outs, they can be set up by running 5-6 yard digs or slants. Quick out back shoulder throws. If a DB tries to jump it, like the slant at LSU, the double move only requires an additional 2-3 yards of space before the ball comes out. Look at the FSU game last year. The long 60 yard td on the slant and go, was only about a 20 yard pass that can be flicked off his back foot.

There have been sideline streaks to Bryant once a game that gets the ball down field and out of Boyd's hand by the time he plants his foot on his drop.

I think if South Carolina plays their single safety man look, then I predict much less designed plays to Watkins and significantly more intermediate routes to Hopkins. Hopkins is the best receiver South Carolina will have faced at catching the ball in a fish bowl. Back shoulder throws down the sidelines can get 20 quick yards on just a 3 step drop. Single coverage brings the fade into play with Hopkins. He can catch the ball over his shoulder and above his head much better than any other receiver on Clemson's team. He doesn't need 'double moves'. A stutter step route is all he needs to get the half yard to a yard separation he needs.

Sonething else that could conceivably burn an aggressive pass defense in the jam bump look, trying to 'jump' a screen pass and then all of a sudden being susceptible to a TE wheel route where that void is because of the DB jumping the fake. Brandon Ford has been used plenty with intermediate down field throws to his back shoulder along the sideline in the small window vacated by overly aggressive DB's. those are quick throws too.

Tajh will throw an interceotion. He's avg 1 per game. He will likely get sacked too. But if you think this years Tajh Boyd = last years, you havebt watched Clemson play.

I know auburn turned out to be a bad football team but Clemson got a better effort from them than any other team did all year. Their dline presented a pass rush challenge just like FSU or South Carolina did/will. Tajh Boyd did not force anything he didn't feel he had enough time to do. I'm certain chad Morris has made him watch that film again this week to show him the importance of not forcing things. He's more sure of himself right now, so I know he will force a pass or two, but I think he will be more inclined to take the sack instead of using that pressure to fling it up in jeopardy.

The football game comes down to running the ball, for either team.

Clemson has never lost a football game in which it rushes and passes for over 200 yards. Clemson wil get 200+ through the air, can Clemson's tempo allow close to 200 yards on the ground?

Besides the running game, simply gaining first downs, maybe more so than points early in the game, is equally as important. For South Carolina it will limit possessions. For Clemson, it will allow tempo to wear out the dline. And while South Carolina's front line starters are as quality as last years group, I don't believe their depth is as quality as last years. Plus, Clemson's tempo never had a chance to dictate the impact of how productive that depth would have been.

Clowney will be a beast, but how will his conditioning hold up to make a big play if Clemson is able to dictate tempo to some degree? So, first downs are more paramount than early points in neutralizing the biggest defensive mismatch on either side of the ball. If Clemson's tempo is able to crank up, Clemson will not need to keep an H back or TE in to help double his pass rush. In my opinion.

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ceece said...

I beg to differ. Some of Clemson's success comes on deep balls, not a lot of it. There are variations on attacking man coverage. Against Duke, pass pro held up and Tajh could wait all day for some double moves, looking off safeties or waiting for WR's to just flat out our run the defense to a spot.

Duke doesn't jump routes though. NC St does a lot more of that, they also lead the ACC in sacks. They got torched a few times deep because the oline blocked well.

The variables of the 'double moves' are based on pass protection and how much the DB's jump routes. South Carolina's db's like to jump routes more than any other team Clemson has faced this year. With a single safety look and aggressive man coverage on underneath stuff. Against a good pass rush, these route trees can be shrunken. Instead of setting up a double move with 10-12 yard outs, they can be set up by running 5-6 yard digs or slants. Quick out back shoulder throws. If a DB tries to jump it, like the slant at LSU, the double move only requires an additional 2-3 yards of space before the ball comes out. Look at the FSU game last year. The long 60 yard td on the slant and go, was only about a 20 yard pass that can be flicked off his back foot.

There have been sideline streaks to Bryant once a game that gets the ball down field and out of Boyd's hand by the time he plants his foot on his drop.

I think if South Carolina plays their single safety man look, then I predict much less designed plays to Watkins and significantly more intermediate routes to Hopkins. Hopkins is the best receiver South Carolina will have faced at catching the ball in a fish bowl. Back shoulder throws down the sidelines can get 20 quick yards on just a 3 step drop. Single coverage brings the fade into play with Hopkins. He can catch the ball over his shoulder and above his head much better than any other receiver on Clemson's team. He doesn't need 'double moves'. A stutter step route is all he needs to get the half yard to a yard separation he needs.

Sonething else that could conceivably burn an aggressive pass defense in the jam bump look, trying to 'jump' a screen pass and then all of a sudden being susceptible to a TE wheel route where that void is because of the DB jumping the fake. Brandon Ford has been used plenty with intermediate down field throws to his back shoulder along the sideline in the small window vacated by overly aggressive DB's. those are quick throws too.

Tajh will throw an interceotion. He's avg 1 per game. He will likely get sacked too. But if you think this years Tajh Boyd = last years, you havebt watched Clemson play.

I know auburn turned out to be a bad football team but Clemson got a better effort from them than any other team did all year. Their dline presented a pass rush challenge just like FSU or South Carolina did/will. Tajh Boyd did not force anything he didn't feel he had enough time to do. I'm certain chad Morris has made him watch that film again this week to show him the importance of not forcing things. He's more sure of himself right now, so I know he will force a pass or two, but I think he will be more inclined to take the sack instead of using that pressure to fling it up in jeopardy.

The football game comes down to running the ball, for either team.

Clemson has never lost a football game in which it rushes and passes for over 200 yards. Clemson wil get 200+ through the air, can Clemson's tempo allow close to 200 yards on the ground?

Besides the running game, simply gaining first downs, maybe more so than points early in the game, is equally as important. For South Carolina it will limit possessions. For Clemson, it will allow tempo to wear out the dline. And while South Carolina's front line starters are as quality as last years group, I don't believe their depth is as quality as last years. Plus, Clemson's tempo never had a chance to dictate the impact of how productive that depth would have been.

Clowney will be a beast, but how will his conditioning hold up to make a big play if Clemson is able to dictate tempo to some degree? So, first downs are more paramount than early points in neutralizing the biggest defensive mismatch on either side of the ball. If Clemson's tempo is able to crank up, Clemson will not need to keep an H back or TE in to help double his pass rush. In my opinion.

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jack lord said...

Just because a Clemson fan said it, doesn't mean it's wrong. Just like with politics. Just because a republican says it, doesn't make it wrong

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