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***South Carolina at Auburn Game Discussion***

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    Nodody on this team can play basketball. This could not come at a worse time. Solid first half followed by a horrendous, nightmare second half. Absolutely pitiful. EVERY player and coach should be ashamed.

    Quoted

    Duckhuntercock ●

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    There is nothing especially wrong with our strategy. Our problem is our players: they are not good enough. I thought that our sophs and freshmen were good enough, but now I'm not sure. We have a serious lack of basketball skill on this team. I love Cooke and Jackson, and I wish them the best in life, but they just can't cut it in the SEC.

    I think I would start Bruce and Brenton in the backcourt. Richardson can't cut it either, and should not be starting, or playing much.

    Brenton is not good enough. He was a longshot. Team has four maybe five guys that rally belong. And they are young.

    VBCock ●

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    Jeff4SC ●

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    William Gunter ●

  • VBCock said...

    I mean we aren't bringing anyone in to build on what we have...hard to see significant improvement coming unless all of those guys make a leap.

    Yep. This is your team for next year.

    What do you think we ought to do ?

    simms2000

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    Jeff4SC ●

  • Jelsik Sturm said...

    There is nothing especially wrong with our strategy. Our problem is our players: they are not good enough. I thought that our sophs and freshmen were good enough, but now I'm not sure. We have a serious lack of basketball skill on this team. I love Cooke and Jackson, and I wish them the best in life, but they just can't cut it in the SEC.

    I think I would start Bruce and Brenton in the backcourt. Richardson can't cut it either, and should not be starting, or playing much.

    Amazingly, I completely agree with jeslik. We simply are not very talented. I keep hearing this "good nucleus" term thrown around and I don't see it. We are hoping that maybe we have 3-4 guys who can develop into SEC caliber players. I agree that Gill is a solid young player, as well as Harris, but neither will ever sniff the all-sec level. Look at how far our standards have fallen...

    NCgamecock03136

  • bluegrasscock said...

    Yeah well good players also get good shots. I guess it's a chicken/egg thing. Horn has recruited a team of midmajor players or SEC level role players. Gill really looks like the only one who is a legit SEC potential really good player...and he's pretty timid right now.
    Really, at this point, we should press and trap all over the floor, even after misses. What could it possibly hurt?

    Ellington has the ability and has improved, but may never get there. He was a raw kid to begin with and splitting time pretty much ends the discussion of him getting there.

    Leonard on a good team that had multiple penetrators and a post presence could be a 15 ppg deadeye shooter.

    Harris can play. He might get to 10 and 7 before he is done.

    Beyond that, yeah...not really much more than some guys.

    VBCock ●

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    europhilz ●

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    William Gunter ●

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    Jeff4SC ●

  • simms2000 said...

    Yep. This is your team for next year.

    What do you think we ought to do ?

    Like I said last spring, I think horn will most likely fail. I hope he turns it around, but I see no way he can recruit out of this. If he can, he is a genius.

    From a roster perspective, maybe this season is the best choice to make a change, but ultimately it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

    VBCock ●

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    simms2000

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    William Gunter ●

  • VBCock said...

    Ellington has the ability and has improved, but may never get there. He was a raw kid to begin with and splitting time pretty much ends the discussion of him getting there.

    Leonard on a good team that had multiple penetrators and a post presence could be a 15 ppg deadeye shooter.

    Harris can play. He might get to 10 and 7 before he is done.

    Beyond that, yeah...not really much more than some guys.

    Ellington is too streaky a shooter, and sadly, on this team, he has to be a scorer. If we had some players who could score and let Ellington be a playmaker, he could be really good.

    Harris can be a guy who averages a double double. Gill can get better. Slawson is an underachiever. He shows flashes, but hasn't done it with any consistency.

    Richardson needs to be on the bench. I would start Williams at the 2G in the next game. At least he can make some shots.

    Jelsik Sturm

  • I keep hearing basketball is a revenue producing sport.....how? Season ticket sales?

    98Grad

  • VBCock said...

    Like I said last spring, I think horn will most likely fail. I hope he turns it around, but I see no way he can recruit out of this. If he can, he is a genius.

    From a roster perspective, maybe this season is the best choice to make a change, but ultimately it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

    Agree.

    Think you've got to make a move or you lose another year, which was my argument last year.

    Bring in someone and let them take their lumps like in 1994. Add some guys and hope to be significantly better the following year. Who that is is beyond me.

    simms2000

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    William Gunter ●

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    wcmusc

  • simms2000 said...

    Agree.

    Think you've got to make a move or you lose another year, which was my argument last year.

    Bring in someone and let them take their lumps like in 1994. Add some guys and hope to be significantly better the following year. Who that is is beyond me.

    I have no clue who to hire. If you were spending three million, I don't know who you'd be able to hire to fix this.

    When we are well coached we win six conference games, When we are poorly coached we win four or five. Just how it seems to work out.

    I have a good thirty years in this and have seen four ncaas, and a handful of decent nit level teams and about twenty that we're some degree of bad, some better coached than others,

    Last year was about the worst looking of them to close the season, this season we seem to have a half of reasonably decent basketball in us and a half where we look horrendous, not sure how to explain that one. Other than talent and inexperience and coaching.

    I think our zone is interesting, but a one trick pony that has weaknesses that if you play it exclusively a team is going to figure out. But I guess we are so bad man to man we can't play it.

    VBCock ●

  • From what I have heard, in the current environment of college basketball, the only way to get top players is to pay them, pay their AAU coaches, pay their high school coaches, pay their parents and pay their girlfriend. It would then seem that the only way to build a good program at USC would be to hire a coach who has, or can get, a bag of money that gets new money put into it every year from somewhere. Nice business to be in, huh? I understand why Fogler wanted to get out.

    Jelsik Sturm

  • I think that is the crux of the issue. I don't know who you could pay 3MM to come here that isn't in the sunset of their career looking for a place close to the coast.

    Which puts you right back to taking a flyer on a mid-major or lower level BCS conference coach. Having said that, just because it isn't obvious which direction to go shouldn't mean we continue to do nothing.

    simms2000

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    William Gunter ●

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    simms2000

  • simms2000 said...

    I think that is the crux of the issue. I don't know who you could pay 3MM to come here that isn't in the sunset of their career looking for a place close to the coast.

    Which puts you right back to taking a flyer on a mid-major or lower level BCS conference coach. Having said that, just because it isn't obvious which direction to go shouldn't mean we continue to do nothing.

    For three million you can get plenty of good coaches.

    Consider that last season there was only six coaches (Pitinio, Coach K, Calipari, Self, Donavon and Izzo from highest to lowest) that made over three million dollars that made the NCAA Tourny.

    Guys like Roy Williams (1.65mil), Jay Wright (1.8 mil) and Bob Huggins (1.8 mil) don't even make two million dollars unless they make the Big Dance to receive their bonus.

    Now I am not up to speed on what salary increase's coaches received last year but if you were to go out and pay 1.3 that would be an increase from 2010-2011 for:

    Mick Cronin - Cincinnati
    Mike Brey - Notre Dame
    Josh Pastner - Memphis
    Buzz Williams - Marquette

    Now again, those guys may have received raises last off-season and now make more but that is based on the numbers from last season.

    Basketball doesn't take as much money as some think but you do have to be willing to pony up some.

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    William Gunter ●

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